With automakers like BMW, Tesla, Audi, Porsche and Volvo taking steps to remove AM radios from their electric vehicles what is the fate of this aging but reliable form of communications?
Show Notes
[INTRO THEME]
[INTRODUCTIONS] (3-5 minutes)
Show introduction:
Insights Into Tomorrow Episode 20: Don’t Touch That Dial
Host introductions
My co-host (Sam Whalen)
[SUMMARY]
With automakers like BMW, Tesla, Audi, Porsche and Volvo taking steps to remove AM radios from their electric vehicles what is the fate of this aging but reliable form of communications?
That’s what we’re discussing on today’s Insights Into Tomorrow.
But first I want to invite our listening and viewing audience to subscribe to the podcast and be sure to rate us on your favor podcast catcher of choice
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[TRANSITION]
[SEGMENT 1 – Introduction (10-15 minutes)]
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/nation/2023/05/19/am-radio-going-away-nj-bill-aims-keep-stations-cars/70232047007/#:~:text=BMW%2C%20Tesla%2C%20Audi%2C%20Porsche,House%20and%20Senate%20on%20Wednesday.
https://njersy.co/43djZz3
It’s no secret that AM radio has lost much of it’s luster over the decades since it was first introduced in the early 1900’s.
While superior over the air technologies such as FM and Satellite radio have taken their toll on AM, the advent of streaming services and ubiquitous mobile high speed internet and event mediums like our own podcast have eroded AM’s market share even further
Relegated to mostly talk show formats due to it’s technology limitations AM is still going strong in many parts of the country and for many segments of the population
It is still considered the backbone behind America’s national public warning system
So can the country afford to do away with AM Radio?
There are members of our government such as US Congressman Josh Gettheimer who think we can’t afford to lose AM Radio
“AM Radio is resilient to cyber attacks, nuclear threat and natural disasters”
“…when the cell phone goes out, the internet gets cut off, or the television doesn’t work because there’s no power to your house, you can still use AM radio. It will still be there.”
The issue (as depicted by the auto industry) comes down to a collision of technology
Everyone knows that AM reception can be staticky, especially if you happen to listen during a lightning storm and can “hear” the flashes of lightning
Automakers claim the technology of electric cars creates exceptional interference with AM radio
They encourage people to use apps and streaming services to get their AM content
However, Honda, Toyota and Nissan all have AM in their electric vehicles, why can’t Tesla and other’s?
The real issue goes deeper than the whims of car makers trying to modernize their products
According to Forbes magazine, 40% of all radio listening is done in cars
If the auto-industry turns away from AM, losing that large a percentage of listeners could doom the platform and make it impossible to stay commercially viable
To address these concerns a bipartisan group of elected leaders have sponsored the AM for Every Vehicle Act
[SEGMENT 2: Exploring the motivations (10-15 minutes)
Why is AM Radio so important
Some members of the right leaning media such as Sean Hannity suggest the phasing out of AM could be a conspiracy to silence conservative voices
Many right-leaning talk shows that are the key to the Republic base live on AM
But isn’t Elon Musk emerging as a leader of the right?
Why would Tesla be participating in this conspiracy?
In reality the prevalence of talk radio on AM leads back to the technology once again
Jordan Walton, executive director of the New Jersey Broadcasters association tells us “Due to the nature of the sound, AM lends itself to the spoken word, which is why the talk shows gravitate toward it”
Hundreds of foreign language stations on the platform server marginalized communities
Nearly 47 million American’s listen to AM
As with everything, cost is a factor as well
As a platform, AM is a comparatively inexpensive medium to partake in
AM is the great equalizer across drastically divergent economic situations
“From a millionaire in a Porsche to a homeless person with a battery radio can tune in.”
Farmers, seniors and immigrants all rely on it because of the cheap cost of entry
You don’t need any high tech gear or advanced knowledge of computers to use it
Probably the most significant reason AM is important is as a means of emergency communications
Severe weather alerts, Amber alerts and other emergency broadcasts go out over AM frequencies
FEMA has spend decades building out it’s Integrated Public Alert & Warning Systems (IPAWS)
Using somewhere in the range of 77 primary emergency alerting stations around the country, the vast majority of them are AM stations
These stations brought vital information, warnings and comfort during tragedies such as hurricane’s, earth quakes and even in the wake of the 9/11 attacks
[SEGMENT 3: How can it be saved (10-15 minutes)
Ajit Pai and the FCC
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/09/us/a-quest-to-save-am-radio-before-its-lost-in-the-static.html
https://bit.ly/42W5qj1
Back in 2013 Ajit Pai saw the problem looming and embarked on a personal quest to save AM.
After a little more than a year in the job, he is urged the F.C.C. to undertake an overhaul of AM radio, which he calls “the audible core of our national culture.” He sees AM as vital in emergencies and in rural areas.
“AM radio is localism, it is community,” Mr. Pai, 40, said in an interview at the time.
AM’s longer wavelength means it can be heard at far greater distances and so in crises, he said,
“AM radio is always going to be there.”
As an example, he cited Fort Yukon, Alaska, where the AM station KZPA broadcasts inquiries about missing hunters and transmits flood alerts during the annual spring ice breakup.
Congress tries to save AM radio as automakers threaten to pull the plug.
https://www.gmtoday.com/news/illinois/congress-tries-to-save-am-radio-as-automakers-threaten-to-pull-the-plug-chicago-listeners/article_558c4110-0627-11ee-b14a-df6c884b8044.html
https://bit.ly/3pfaWzF
A backlash by station owners, listeners and legislators prompted Ford to announce it was reversing course on it’s previous announcement to stop installing AM radios in it’s cars
But with Tesla and a growing number of EV manufacturers announced their intentions to phase out the technology a Congressional subcommittee began debating the merits of proposed legislation to make AM receivers standard equipment in all new vehicles.
Removing AM radios from cars could dramatically reduce the audience, with 74% of AM listening happening in the car, a Nielsen spokesperson said Tuesday.
Automakers cite audio interference with electric motors and the ability to stream stations as justification for phasing out AM radios
The communications and technology subcommittee of the Energy and Commerce Committee heard nearly three hours of testimony as to why AM should be saved.
The AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act would require “dashboard access” to any AM broadcast stations in a “manner that is conspicuous to a driver.”
The primary rationale is AM radio’s integral role in alerting the public of emergency situations as part of a national network
In addition, the subcommittee noted that AM radio has become a communications lifeline for diverse audiences, from ethnic and religious broadcasts to agricultural news.
“There’s a lot of programming on AM radio that will have no place to go if AM radio dies quicker than a natural death,” Michael Harrison, publisher of Talkers magazine, a radio trade publication said
Tesla, the leading electric vehicle manufacturer in the U.S., has not included AM radios in its cars for years.
A number of manufacturers followed suit, bypassing AM receivers in their EVs, including BMW, Mazda, Rivian, Volkswagen and Volvo.
The manufacturers claim that electromagnetic interference from batteries generates an audible high-frequency hum for AM broadcast signals.
But when Ford announced in April it would stop putting AM radios in gas- and electric-powered vehicles beginning in 2024 the radio industry mobilized listeners and legislators to the cause of keeping AM radios in cars. and on May 23, Ford reversed its decision — at least for the next model year.
“After speaking with policy leaders about the importance of AM broadcast radio as a part of the emergency alert system, we’ve decided to include it on all 2024 Ford & Lincoln vehicles,” Ford CEO Jim Farley announced on Twitter.
Longer term, the future of AM radio remains up in the air.
Change.org’s Save AM Radio – A Part of the Emergency Alert System!
https://www.change.org/p/save-am-radio-a-part-of-the-emergency-alert-system
https://bit.ly/3PvEOCr
The petition was started by WABC Radio
In times of emergency AM Radio could be your only source of information.
AM Radio is part of the Emergency Alert System, so critical life saving information during hurricanes, floods, blackouts and other disasters are delivered to you via AM Radio.
Certain car manufacturers have dropped AM Radio from their current and future vehicles.
This profit motivated move by car manufacturers is dangerous!
[SEGMENT 3: Why is AM Fading away (10-15 minutes)
AM listenership has been in decline for years, losing ground to the cleaner sound of FM radio, and more recently, satellite radio and the rise of digital media in the new millennium.
There are 4,500 AM radio stations nationwide reaching about 82 million listeners each month, or about a third of the audience for terrestrial radio, according to Nielsen.
In Chicago, AM listeners represent 48% of the total monthly radio audience — tied with Milwaukee and second only to Buffalo at 56%, according to a Nielsen study published by Cumulus Media, a national radio chain that owns WLS-AM, WLS-FM and WKQX-FM in Chicago.
Once a towering Top-40 station, WLS-AM 890 switched to a talk format more than three decades ago.
It currently ranks 23rd in Chicago with a 1.7 share, according to Nielsen ratings for May.
Philadelphia-based radio chain Audacy owns two of the top-rated AM stations in Chicago, all-news WBBM and sports station WSCR, better known as The Score.
Craig Schwalb, 51, an Illinois native and veteran radio news executive who took the reins at WBBM-AM in January has spent most of his career at AM stations.
He declined to break down the AM/FM audience split at WBBM, but said the reach of its AM signal is crucial for a news station — especially in emergency situations.
“I’ve covered a bunch of hurricanes in my time in different radio markets, and I’ll tell you that when electricity goes down, and cell towers are out, and all kinds of things aren’t accessible, television is not accessible, cellphone signals and batteries die, things like that, AM radio is there,” Schwalb said.
[SEGMENT 4: Questions and Answers (10-15 minutes)
Should AM radio be kept alive?
Should the government intervene in keeping AM radio alive?
Do you listen to AM radio in the car?
Will not having AM radios in cars kill the medium?
What is the future for AM radio if it can be saved today?
[OUTRO AND CREDITS]
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Transcription
00:00:02:09 – 00:01:00:06
MIchelle
Insightful podcasts by informative host insights into Things, a podcast network. Welcome to Insights into Tomorrow, where we take a deeper look into how the issues of today will impact the world of tomorrow. From politics and world news to media and technology, we discuss how today’s headlines are becoming tomorrow’s reality.
00:01:00:09 – 00:01:12:14
Joseph
Welcome to Insights into Tomorrow. This is episode 20. Don’t touch that dial. I’m your host, Joseph Whelan, and my co-host today. Sam on How are you doing today, Sam? Good.
00:01:12:14 – 00:01:13:27
Sam
How are you doing?
00:01:13:29 – 00:01:32:13
Joseph
Fantastic. So this topic kind of came up when I was doing some research on on various things that we could talk about. This one kind of hit home mainly because of what you do And what’s what do you do that’s tied to this topic?
00:01:32:15 – 00:01:49:19
Sam
Yeah. So I currently am a producer and I am radio station. I run the board for a bunch of different shows three days a week. I also would like to break into the FM market at some point. That’s sort of my goal. I went to college for did radio in college, did radio in high school. Radio is my passion and it’s what I want to do for a living.
00:01:49:22 – 00:01:55:03
Sam
So yeah, this topic was important and something I think about too often.
00:01:55:06 – 00:01:57:13
Joseph
Awesome. Well, thank you for the resumé there.
00:01:57:13 – 00:02:01:22
Sam
We’ll make sure we do. No problem. Yeah. Check out my website.
00:02:01:24 – 00:02:27:03
Joseph
So the article that I came across happened to deal with with current automakers like BMW, Tesla, Audi, Porsche and Volvo, all taking steps to remove AM radios from their electric vehicles. And it made me think and it’s making a lot of people think, what’s the fate of this aging but reliable form of communication? And that’s what we’re going to discuss today.
00:02:27:05 – 00:02:50:09
Joseph
But before we do that, I did want to take a moment to invite our listening and viewing audience to subscribe to the podcast. You can find audio versions of this podcast listed as insights into tomorrow. You can find video and audio of all the network’s podcasts listed as insights into things, and we’re pretty much anywhere you can get a podcast these days Apple, Spotify, Google and so forth.
00:02:50:12 – 00:03:09:20
Joseph
I would also invite you to write in and give us your feedback. Tell us how we’re doing. You can email us at comments and insights into things dot com. You can find us on Twitter and insights underscore things, or you can find links to all of our social media on our main website at WW w dot insights into things dot com.
00:03:09:20 – 00:03:10:15
Joseph
Shall we get into it?
00:03:10:15 – 00:03:11:05
Sam
Let’s get into it.
00:03:11:08 – 00:03:17:29
Joseph
Let’s do it.
00:03:18:01 – 00:03:46:16
Joseph
So there’s one particular article that I read was on a site northjersey.com and they kind of talk about the fact that it’s no secret that AM radio has kind of lost most much of its luster over the decades. And it was introduced in the early 1900s and lately it’s lost out to superior technologies. You know, FM being the first one that threatened it satellite radio.
00:03:46:16 – 00:04:07:16
Joseph
And now we’re talking, you know, podcasts and streaming and YouTube and everything you can get over the Internet now. In fact, that’s one of the things that these car companies are saying is that everything that you could get over and you can get over streaming now in the car, which I guess is a valid point as long as that infrastructure is working.
00:04:07:19 – 00:04:28:05
Joseph
Mm hmm. Right. And has been traditionally relegated mostly to talk shows at this point in time. And again, that’s because of the limitations in the technology. Can you talk a little bit about your experience with AM and what the limitations of that technology are and why people might be wanting to move away from it? Sure.
00:04:28:05 – 00:04:48:22
Sam
Yeah. I mean, if you listen to any AM broadcast, you’re going to hear it immediately. The difference between AM and FM, the sound quality is just much lower and that’s has to do a lot with how it transmits signal. It limits itself, essentially. But because it’s so simple, it’s effective in more rural areas and areas where you might not have the high speed Internet you would need for streaming services.
00:04:48:25 – 00:05:15:28
Sam
But again, because of those limitations, like you said, we are mostly talk because, like, you know, anything more complicated, you just wouldn’t hear it because it’s you know, as it’s broadcast, it’s it’s all garbled and talk is only thing that really can come through effectively. But yeah, it’s it’s kind of a miracle that I am still around. I think even as someone that works at an AM station, it is definitely it feels like a relic.
00:05:16:00 – 00:05:36:27
Sam
And when you bring it up to anybody, you immediately are there. Like, you know, it’s dated and it feels dated and but you know, there is still a market for it in areas where it’s not as populated, where it’s easy to get a damn signal. We do have people that call in still. We do have listeners even even with those limitations.
00:05:36:27 – 00:05:37:17
Sam
So.
00:05:37:19 – 00:06:00:17
Joseph
Well, and that’s the technology itself doesn’t lend itself to high fidelity, broadcast stereo or all the new fangled high grade music and stuff that we do now. But what it what it is, it’s it’s reliable and it transmits very far. It doesn’t because of the frequencies that it operates on, it’s not as susceptible to.
00:06:00:19 – 00:06:01:05
Sam
Interference.
00:06:01:05 – 00:06:13:23
Joseph
Interference with, you know, objects, you know, wi fi, for instance, you run Wi-Fi in your house, and if you have drywall in your house, that can interfere with your wi fi signals because of the higher frequency and.
00:06:13:23 – 00:06:14:23
Sam
Weather, too.
00:06:14:25 – 00:06:53:07
Joseph
Yes, that is that’s that’s one thing. But I will say that from a weather standpoint, it’s interesting listening to AM radio in a thunderstorm, because every time there’s a bolt of lightning, you can hear it over the radio. Yeah. But it’s exactly that reliability that resulted in it becoming really America’s backbone for our national public warning system, which is one of the paramount reasons that people are trying to preserve it now, not just, you know, for for talk radio and such, but or a large chunk of our emergency broadcast system is done over AM radio.
00:06:53:10 – 00:07:15:09
Joseph
In fact, the our government is still trying to preserve this. U.S. Congressman Josh Gottheimer think we can’t lose him. Radio, he says. And radio is resilient to cyber attacks, nuclear threat and natural disasters. He goes on to say that when cell phones go out, the Internet gets cut off or television doesn’t work because there’s no power in your house.
00:07:15:09 – 00:07:35:07
Joseph
You can still use an AM radio. It’ll still be there. Yeah, and that’s true. I mean, people have hand-crank am radios for emergency weather services and natural disasters and things like that. How significant do you think it would be if an went away and we lost those 4G communications? Would it be a public health health hazard?
00:07:35:14 – 00:07:52:18
Sam
I think it definitely could be, because, I mean, you know, when all else fails, you, you would still be able to turn to that. You know, everybody, even if they’ve never tuned in on their car or radio before you can. And you would still be able to get that information if that goes away. There really is no failsafe or not failsafe.
00:07:52:25 – 00:08:10:25
Sam
No. Like last resort that you’d be able to go to to get that information, You could. You know, we we get government warnings on our phones, but if there’s some kind of electrical malfunction, your phone is dead. You’re not. And there’s no no cell service, no Internet service. You’re not going to get those alerts, TV broadcasts, you know, you see emergency alert system tests on TV all the time.
00:08:10:25 – 00:08:32:15
Sam
But again, if power goes out or if the, you know, TV networks go out, you’re going to lose that service. AM Radio, It’s pretty hard to shut it down unless like destroy the transmitting towers because no matter what, it’s going to go out. And like you said, you can get a hand-cranked radio to always get that signal. So I think it would be, you know, it’s like a it seems like a really low chance that we’d have to use it for something.
00:08:32:15 – 00:08:36:23
Sam
But if we did and we didn’t have it, the consequences would be pretty rough.
00:08:36:26 – 00:08:57:08
Joseph
Well, and, you know, I’ll take us back to when 911 happened. You know, I was working up in central New Jersey, so most of the radio and TV stations that we had pulled from New York. And when the first tower went down, it took one of the one of the major transmitting stations for all the television networks down.
00:08:57:12 – 00:08:58:16
Sam
No, really, I don’t know that.
00:08:58:16 – 00:09:18:05
Joseph
Yeah. And because it was mounted on top of the tower, because it was the largest structure in the city, and we lost all the all of the antenna servers that we had at the time. We didn’t have cable. We had antenna service. And obviously it’s a time that everyone’s kind of scared, not knowing what’s going on. So you’re looking to get news.
00:09:18:08 – 00:09:35:06
Joseph
Will all the Internet sites were hammered at the time. You couldn’t get anything. In fact, the only Internet news we could get, we had to go to European sites to get that. And they had, you know, spotty reporting at best. We had someone who had an old nine volt radio in their in their desk that they would listen to on their break.
00:09:35:09 – 00:10:07:11
Joseph
And they pulled that out. They pulled up an new station and that was how we kept in touch during 911. So it’s not that unreasonable to think that it’s that important. And it’s, you know, the whole reason this topic came up was because of of the auto industry kind of pushing the issue itself. But that’s not really the driving force behind this, but it’s the reasoning behind the auto industry’s move away from and was sketchy, I would say at best.
00:10:07:18 – 00:10:12:15
Joseph
What are the reasonings that they have for moving away from and.
00:10:12:18 – 00:10:39:21
Sam
So I’m looking at the shownotes. I’m sure we covered the parts, we already covered the issues. But yeah, the real issue is deeper than carmakers trying to modernize their products. This is from Forbes magazine. 40% of all radio listening is done in cars, which is great for us in the radio side of things because you’re guaranteed an audience a lot of like when you do ratings and stuff, you can’t guarantee an audience, but radio, you can kind of cheese the numbers because everyone’s got a radio in their car.
00:10:39:21 – 00:10:43:06
Sam
You know, if they’re not really listening, it’s on. So that counts when it comes to ratings. Sure.
00:10:43:06 – 00:10:44:13
Joseph
Here.
00:10:44:15 – 00:11:02:02
Sam
If the auto industry turns away from and losing, that large percentage of listeners could doom the platform and make it impossible to stay commercially viable, which is also very true, because in radio it all comes down to your ratings so that you can sell advertising to then go back into the station to find more things. It’s a cycle and ratings are everything.
00:11:02:02 – 00:11:23:11
Sam
If you don’t have those ratings and you don’t have that market, you’ve pretty much got no reason to be operational because it is all commercial based. Even if you it is being used for government services. Bipartisan groups of elected leaders have sponsored the AM every AM for every Vehicle act, which I imagine is, you know, a bill to force aim in every car no matter what.
00:11:23:13 – 00:11:24:01
Joseph
Exactly.
00:11:24:01 – 00:11:41:16
Sam
Yeah. And I think that would be a good thing because even if you never use it, like you said, when it comes to 911, having it in a time like that would be extremely useful and helpful. And if if there was no option for that, I don’t know what you would do. I think it would make panic even worse than it probably already would be.
00:11:41:19 – 00:12:04:27
Joseph
Yeah, I and I agree 100%. I think it’s almost like a safety blanket at this point in time. People know that if if they need to get that information, they can, even though they might not avail themselves of it on a regular basis. You know, there’s there’s thousands and thousands of weather radios out there that people have just when there’s a storm and those weather radios get their information over an event.
00:12:04:28 – 00:12:24:00
Joseph
Mm hmm. Now, one of the things that the auto industry is claiming is that because of the the electrical emissions from electrical vehicles, it causes interference over over AM radios and they don’t want a negative experience for their users.
00:12:24:02 – 00:12:25:12
Sam
That are listening to them. Right.
00:12:25:15 – 00:12:26:19
Joseph
Right.
00:12:26:21 – 00:12:28:28
Sam
Like that Venn diagram is pretty small.
00:12:29:01 – 00:12:38:13
Joseph
That’s that’s a very good point is that the fact that they’ve got people that are listening and radios are clearly not looking for a high fidelity signal to begin with.
00:12:38:14 – 00:12:47:20
Sam
Yeah, I don’t think, like I said, the Venn diagram of electric car users and AM radio listeners are that in between is I would argue, probably nonexistent.
00:12:47:22 – 00:13:02:26
Joseph
And I would I would tend to agree with that as well. So and that’s why I say I think they’re they’re they’re motivation for it’s to save money but I can’t imagine that putting an amp capable radio in an electric vehicle is the cost center.
00:13:02:26 – 00:13:12:15
Sam
Well, it’s also probably because they want to have a deal with satellite radio companies because most times if you buy a car now, you it’s got serious built into Sirius XM. Well, yeah.
00:13:12:15 – 00:13:18:00
Joseph
But my vehicle and Sirius built into it. They didn’t have to not have a handle on it. Yeah.
00:13:18:02 – 00:13:25:08
Sam
Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know why they wouldn’t do it. Maybe if it’s a there’s no I don’t think it’s an electrical interference problem. I just don’t buy that.
00:13:25:08 – 00:13:46:06
Joseph
I don’t either. And that’s almost like one of those things where they don’t want to use your cell phone on an airplane because it interferes with telemetry. And it’s like, yes, if under certain circumstances there’s a one in a million chance that it interferes with it, you probably don’t want that chance happening on a plane. I can’t imagine there being anything detrimental about an AM radio.
00:13:46:06 – 00:13:48:04
Joseph
That’s just receiving, not transmitting.
00:13:48:08 – 00:13:49:05
Sam
Right on.
00:13:49:05 – 00:13:50:18
Joseph
A on electric vehicle.
00:13:50:19 – 00:14:07:12
Sam
Yeah. And like I have a AM radio transmitter hooked up to my stereo or a receiver hooked up to my stereo, and it’s just like a square piece of plastic with wire wrapped around it. That’s all you need to get a signal. It’s like you need a full stereo or radio head to get it right. You just need some wire that you stick out.
00:14:07:12 – 00:14:21:18
Joseph
And it’s funny you mention that because during that 911 situation, the radio that we had was was not getting a very good signal. So we actually took a piece of coaxial up, dripped all the shielding off of it and just turned that into a bigger antenna and got a clear signal.
00:14:21:18 – 00:14:36:21
Sam
Yeah. And that’s one of the reasons I love radio so much. Not just am I, I don’t really love and that much, but FM radio in general. The concept of radio, it’s so accessible and I’ve always equated it’s like sticking your hand in a river. Like the radio is always there and there’s so many ways to access it.
00:14:36:21 – 00:14:55:21
Sam
And you, you know, you could have a big boombox that you tune your favorite station to, but you can also have something in the palm of your hand that can do the same thing. And I just think like, you don’t really get that with any other medium. Not to mention, it’s very personable. Like when when you’re listening to a DJ, it’s it feels like it’s just you and them having a conversation and you don’t get that with TV or movies.
00:14:55:25 – 00:15:15:12
Sam
Sure. And I think I am does have that. And that’s another reason that my talk is so successful and am when it is, is because you can access it in a variety of ways that are pretty easy and you don’t have to pay to listen to the radio like you don’t have to pay a subscription fee. You can just have a wire and stick it up in the air and have some sort of output.
00:15:15:19 – 00:15:24:27
Sam
And you’re you’re listening. There’s no barrier to entry. And I just that’s one of the reasons I love it so much. And it’s so accessible no matter, you know, where you are in life. I just think it’s great.
00:15:24:29 – 00:15:49:15
Joseph
And it’s funny because there’s been a push by politicians to declare Internet as a public utility. Everyone needs to have Internet and I don’t want to argue with that. I mean, that’s our medium of choice for the podcast and I think everyone should have it. But if everyone should have the Internet as a public service, everyone should have m m already exist, why would you take it away?
00:15:49:15 – 00:16:07:19
Sam
And it’s much easier to give everybody access to and an Internet. Absolutely, because the further the less populated areas you get, it’s way harder to get that Internet working. I have a a friend of mine who lives in Maine, and his two choices for Internet were spectrum or like satellite internet, which is way worse. Right. And the delay in that is insane and has been 2023.
00:16:07:19 – 00:16:24:05
Sam
And he’s not even in like a rural area. It’s just in Maine. Like there’s still parts of the country where you’re not getting 5G, you know, upload speeds and things like that. And you know, that’s going to be a problem for many more years to come. They’re not going to have that ironed out, certainly not in the way that it works as reliably as am does now.
00:16:24:10 – 00:16:49:05
Joseph
Well, and that’s sort of what the the auto industry’s kind of counting on is people using getting this information over the Internet. And the problem with the model of the Internet is it’s called centric to the consumer. Mm hmm. Where if you want the Internet, you have to pay for it in some form, either through taxes, through direct subscriptions or whatever, whereas AM is producer centric.
00:16:49:12 – 00:17:17:08
Joseph
So if someone wants to produce content and put it out on radio so they have to fund it, they fund it through viewer, through listenership and through advertising and advertising, but there’s no cost, like you said, to the consumer at that point in time. So it makes it accessible to low income people, to seniors, to everybody out there who who doesn’t have unlimited income and free disposable income.
00:17:17:08 – 00:17:20:18
Sam
And going back to that accessibility thing, it’s pretty easy to understand. It’s a.
00:17:20:18 – 00:17:24:07
Joseph
Dial. You flip it on and you turn it to where you want to listen to something.
00:17:24:07 – 00:17:47:24
Sam
Yeah. And it’s just, you know, I don’t I don’t think there’s any other, like, medium of communication that’s like it. And I think that’s the reason it’s still around. You know, it’s people say the radio industry is dying and I don’t think it’s dying. I think it’s changing. I think it’s evolving. But I think the core technology of how FM and AM transmission works, I think there’s always going to be a place for that as long as, you know, broadcasting towers still exist.
00:17:47:26 – 00:18:20:07
Joseph
Well, the fact that you have podcasts that have become so popular tells me that the the the content that comes over and is still popular, the media may be changing, but that content is still deliverable. It’s ease of use, it’s low cost and it’s accessible to everybody. It makes a lot of sense to keep it around for for people who aren’t high tech and have disposable income to pay for the content that they’re looking for.
00:18:20:10 – 00:18:31:08
Joseph
They’re sure there’s a market for all the other stuff and there’s nothing to take away from that. But AM still serves a huge portion of the of the public, and I think it’s probably worthwhile to keep it around.
00:18:31:10 – 00:18:33:15
Sam
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:33:18 – 00:19:18:01
Joseph
On that note, I think we’re going to take our first break and we’ll come back and we’ll talk about why A is so important. We’ll be right back. For over seven years, the Second City Empire has been the premier community guild in the online game star Wars, the Old Republic with hundreds of friendly and helpful active members, a weekly schedule of nightly events, annual guild meet greets and an active community, both on the Web and on Discord.
00:19:18:03 – 00:19:53:16
Joseph
The second Civ Empire is more than your typical gaming group. We’re family. Join us on the Star Forge server for nightly events such as Operations, Flash Points, World Boss Funds, Star Wars, Trivia Guild, Lottery and much more. Visit us on the web today at WW W the second civ and Empire dot com.
00:19:53:19 – 00:20:09:26
Sam
Welcome back everyone to insights into tomorrow. Today we’re talking about AM radio and the value of it in today’s modern world. So in this segment we’re going to talk about why am radio is so important. Like I said at the top of the show, I am a producer at an AM radio station, so you can take that however you want.
00:20:09:28 – 00:20:29:27
Sam
They’re not paying me to say this, though. They’re barely paying me to work. So some members of the right leaning media, such as Sean HANNITY, suggest the phasing out of A.I.M. could be a conspiracy to silence conservative voices. And boy, does that sound like a narrative we’ve heard before. Many right leaning talk shows that are the key to the Republican base live on AM.
00:20:30:00 – 00:20:50:14
Sam
That’s very, very true. A lot of the shows that I run are like that. And it is they are just more popular than a lot of the other shows we get. They because they have that they have that built in audience essentially. Why would we have a node in here about Elon Musk? He’s an Elon Musk emerging as a leader of the right.
00:20:50:15 – 00:21:10:15
Sam
Why would Tesla be participating in this conspiracy? That’s a good point. Elon clearly is on the right side when it comes to the political spectrum, going back to the EV vehicles, wanting to get rid of AM radio. Why would he be doing that if it’s a constant echo chamber for right leaning ideas? I don’t know. That’s a good question.
00:21:10:16 – 00:21:11:22
Sam
Do you have any thoughts on that?
00:21:11:24 – 00:21:36:09
Joseph
I don’t. And that’s it makes me go back to the thought that it’s a cost savings thing. But I don’t know how you’re saving money on it by getting rid of it. What other motivation would he have other than making sure that other medium you know, he owns Twitter, too. So maybe it’s a way of trying to make sure that the mediums that he favors more are at the forefront.
00:21:36:11 – 00:22:00:00
Joseph
You know, removing and I don’t want to get into conspiracy theories here, but one of the things that that right leaning side of of the country seems to think is that if they eliminate options for people and the only options that you have left to adopt are the options that they want you to adopt. And you obviously wind up following their their doctor indoctrination.
00:22:00:04 – 00:22:13:29
Joseph
Right. Is this a factor of that? I doubt it. I think that’s kind of a stretch, but I think it’s more of a technology thing. Like I don’t even know what kind of radio a Tesla has at this point in time, cause it’s a it’s a computer interface that it has.
00:22:14:00 – 00:22:31:18
Sam
Yeah, I have no idea. But I could see Elon being more of the mind of, you know, there’s a ton of, of right wing stuff on like YouTube and their own sites that are getting plenty of traffic. And I could see Elon being completely fine with just moving past an entirely to focus more on that digital side of things.
00:22:31:18 – 00:22:47:15
Sam
You know guys like like I’m not even going to mention their names, but you know, they are the guys that are, you know, on that side of the spectrum that are online doing their shows. They don’t need they’re basically doing an alien talk radio show just on the Internet and they’re getting way more eyes on than they would ever get on em.
00:22:47:17 – 00:22:52:00
Sam
So I could see Elon just being of the mindset that AM is dead and I’ll just move on from it.
00:22:52:02 – 00:23:13:13
Joseph
Well, and let’s be honest, the format that we do on this show here is is very well suited with the exception of the video, obviously, but it’s very well suited to being on an AM radio station, which is why I say are the most popular podcasts that are out there today are really an AM podcast. They’re an AM talk show that happens to be on the Internet.
00:23:13:15 – 00:23:22:17
Joseph
So there isn’t a lack of demand for what am offers from a format standpoint. Is it just a technology thing?
00:23:22:19 – 00:23:50:02
Sam
I mean, yeah, once again, we go back to this issue of technology. Jordan Walton, executive director of the New Jersey Broadcasters Association, tells us due to the nature of the sound and lend itself to the spoken word, which is why the talk shows gravitate toward it. Which is true when I’m producing shows. We are very aware that we are a spoken word when it comes to things like compression rate and what we’re uploading our shows that it really doesn’t matter that much because when it comes it when it’s processed through the transmitter, it’s going to sound like it sounds on.
00:23:50:02 – 00:24:10:24
Sam
And no matter what we do to it. Hundreds of foreign language stations on the platform server marginalized communities, which is also very true. I run a lot of shows dealing with Eastern European communities in the area, Ukrainian people, Polish people, and that was a aspect of the radio industry that I had no idea about before I started this job, and it’s really opened my eyes to it.
00:24:10:24 – 00:24:32:23
Sam
How important it is to these communities to have that access. I mean, holding full on religious services that through the AM AM dial that they might not be able to get to otherwise. It’s a big deal and it’s in those communities. It is still very active. And of course nearly 47 million Americans listen to AM, which is a lot of people.
00:24:32:23 – 00:24:38:08
Sam
And if that just happened to go away, that’s 40 million people that just lose access to that that platform.
00:24:38:12 – 00:25:00:07
Joseph
Yeah. And I go back to when I was a kid, you know, my grandmother lived with us. She she was from that’s my mother used to term at the old country. She was from Lithuania and she didn’t speak English very well, didn’t understand English very well. So she was very self-conscious going out in public because she couldn’t communicate.
00:25:00:09 – 00:25:18:15
Joseph
There happened to be at the time, a radio station, a local and radio station that she would listen to that was done. I don’t know if it was done in Lithuania, but it was done in a language that she understood and that was like her connection to the outside world. She would get religious services through it, she would get news through it.
00:25:18:18 – 00:25:32:18
Joseph
It was it was a friendly voice that she didn’t hear unless she was talking to members of her own community. And that that level of cultural sensitivity, I think, is very important to maintain for those marginalized people.
00:25:32:21 – 00:25:44:18
Sam
Absolutely. I mean, some of the shows that we run are entirely in other languages, entirely in Polish or entirely in Ukrainian. And, you know, I don’t speak those languages, but somebody is listening because otherwise they wouldn’t be on the air.
00:25:44:21 – 00:26:12:16
Joseph
Right. So and as with everything, cost is still a factor, you know, as a platform aims comparatively inexpensive certainly to to produce and create content for AMS also the great equalizer across drastically divergent economic situations from a millionaire to a push to from a millionaire in a Porsche to a homeless person with a battery radio. Anyone can tune in is the quote that I found.
00:26:12:16 – 00:26:26:21
Sam
And that’s kind of what I talked about earlier. The accessibility of it. There’s no subscription fee as long as you have a way to receive the transmission because they’re all around you, you know, you can’t see them, obviously. But, you know, FM signals and and signals are all around you as long as you’ve got to answer them.
00:26:26:21 – 00:26:27:13
Joseph
I can say that.
00:26:27:18 – 00:26:33:23
Sam
You got to see a doctor. I love you’ve got a Twitter to see that you can access it. And I think that I think that’s a wonderful thing.
00:26:33:26 – 00:26:59:24
Joseph
You’re absolutely right. And again, talking about your your friend who’s in Maine and other people, you know, you’ve got farmers and seniors and immigrants who all rely on it because it’s a cheap cost of entry into getting into these areas. These these discussions. You don’t need any high tech gear. You don’t need any advanced knowledge of computers. You’ve literally flip a button, turn it on, turn the knob, the where you want to go, and it’s there.
00:26:59:26 – 00:27:27:21
Joseph
So that accessibility makes it appealing to a lot of people. Probably the most significant reason am is important. Again, we touched on earlier as a means of emergency communication, severe weather alerts, Amber alerts and other emergency broadcasts all go out over and frequencies. Now, a lot of those you can get over your cell phone now, too, but in times of emergencies, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes.
00:27:27:23 – 00:27:56:06
Joseph
The technology required to make the Internet work. And, you know, full disclosure, I think everyone knows by now I work in technology. I work with the Internet. The fact that it works as well as it does is a miracle. There are so many points of failure that can stop the Internet from working, especially when you’re talking about cell signals that in in times of a natural disaster, it’s the first literally the first thing to go down.
00:27:56:08 – 00:28:22:25
Joseph
FEMA has spent decades building out its integrated public alert warning system or its iPod system, using somewhere in the range of 77 primary emergency alerting stations around the country that are and base stations. So you’ve got a huge infrastructure for emergency broadcasting that’s already been invested by the country to build this out. And it works. That’s I think that’s my biggest catches.
00:28:22:27 – 00:28:52:07
Joseph
There’s no reason not to use it. It’s not like it’s failing. It’s not like our our crumbling road infrastructure where bridges are falling, literally falling down within driving distance of us here. This works. The technology is sufficient enough to do the job that it’s doing, and there’s no reason not to use it. The stations brought vital information, warnings and comfort during tragedies like hurricanes and earthquakes and again in the wake of 911.
00:28:52:09 – 00:29:08:25
Joseph
So I can’t think of a compelling reason for them to go away. The fact that it’s an old technology shouldn’t be a reason The wheel is an old technology, and that’s not going away because it’s thousands of years old. Right.
00:29:08:28 – 00:29:24:21
Sam
You know, I don’t really see why you’d get rid of it. I mean, it still works. It’s worked essentially the same way for like 100 years at this point. I forget when it was invented, I think in the early 1900s, but like, it still works, especially when it comes to things like this. Why would you get rid of it?
00:29:24:21 – 00:29:37:00
Sam
And what is the alternative really like? Is there a plan from these auto makers for I guess they don’t really. It’s something there. Another problem if I am radios are done away with the alternative would be for these kind of emergency broadcasts.
00:29:37:02 – 00:30:12:17
Joseph
No it’s not and they’re they’re they’re solution this is you know I use an app and I’m sorry but there isn’t an app for the emergency broadcasting system. There isn’t an app that works when the Internet goes down or your cellular connection goes down. The technology of the Internet. And it’s ironic because when the Internet, when the concept of the Internet came out after Sputnik launched, the idea was to move away from circuits, switched telephone networks that could be taken out in a nuclear strike to a packet switch network which can route around outages on the network.
00:30:12:19 – 00:30:32:04
Joseph
So the whole premise of the Internet was to have a redundant system of communication that didn’t go down during emergencies. And the first thing that goes down in times of urgency is your local Internet connection. Like it happens every time. You know, we have we have gusty storms here and our cable Internet goes out or the power goes out.
00:30:32:04 – 00:30:51:22
Joseph
And it’s like there’s so many things that an Internet connection is dependent on that if any one of those goes down, whether it’s your power at your house, your router, the wire to your house, the wire on the street, the wire back to the central office, there’s so many things that could go out that would take down your Internet.
00:30:51:25 – 00:31:12:10
Joseph
And if you think about the technology for AM, what do you have? You have the radio station and their antenna. They’re the only two things that you need. And you could set up a portable AM radio broadcasting station within an hour of a natural disaster. So the level of redundancy isn’t anywhere near where it is with an.
00:31:12:13 – 00:31:20:15
Sam
Yeah, just like a personal anecdote. I remember there was one time when I was younger we got stuck in traffic somewhere like standstill traffic, and the first thing you did was tuna.
00:31:20:15 – 00:31:25:20
Joseph
AM That was the New Jersey Turnpike or the Pennsylvania Turnpike coming back from Hershey.
00:31:25:23 – 00:31:42:08
Sam
And the first thing you do is you turn to one of the our local AM stations to get the traffic and the traffic and weather like every 20 minutes, maybe less than ten or 15 minutes. But that was the first thing it did because it was reliable And we might not have at the time had, you know, as up to date, you know, Google Maps as we do now.
00:31:42:08 – 00:31:50:23
Sam
But it was a way that you knew the count on to get that information pretty much immediately and effectively. And it worked. And it well, you know, any kind of issue.
00:31:50:25 – 00:32:22:01
Joseph
Yeah. So I don’t think there’s a huge danger of of am going away. What concerns me more is the fact that you have manufacturers that are marginalizing it now. It’s it’s one thing to lose market share to a superior technology when the product that you’re trying to consume like music relies on that superior technology. If you listen to the same song on AM and on FM, you can hear the difference.
00:32:22:04 – 00:32:43:03
Joseph
Losing market share to that is understandable because you’re getting a higher quality product, right? Losing market share. Just because some auto manufacturer decides that they don’t want to put a radio in your car anymore, that’s pretty arbitrary. At that point in time, you’re taking the choice out of the hands of the consumer at that point.
00:32:43:06 – 00:33:00:12
Sam
Yeah, And again, we’ve we’ve hit this a bunch, but like, it doesn’t cost that much. It can’t cost that much. I have an FM and receiver hooked up to my stereo and it’s just two wires. Like, I don’t understand. Like what the it’s not like it’s, it’s costing hundreds of thousands of dollars to install these devices in cars.
00:33:00:15 – 00:33:05:12
Sam
It can’t cause that much, you know. And it’s, it’s just like, why get rid of it? It doesn’t I don’t understand it.
00:33:05:12 – 00:33:29:26
Joseph
Yeah, no, I agree. We’re going to take another break here. We come back, we’re going to talk about how it can be saved because we’re not the only ones that think it should be. There are other people, fortunately, in positions of power who think it should be saved. We’ll be back in a minute.
00:33:29:29 – 00:34:01:27
MIchelle
Insights into entertainment, a podcast series, taking a deeper look into entertainment and media. Our husband and wife team of pop culture fanatics are exploring all things from music and movies to television and fandom. We’ll look at the interesting and obscure entertainment news of the week. We’ll talk about theme park and pop culture news. We’ll give you the latest and greatest on pop culture conventions.
00:34:02:00 – 00:34:32:06
MIchelle
We’ll give you a deep dive into Disney, Star Wars and much more. Check out our video episodes at YouTube.com. Backslash Insights into things are audio episodes at Podcast Insights into entertainment dot com or check us out on the web at insights into things Icon.
00:34:32:09 – 00:35:00:28
Joseph
Welcome back to Insights into Tomorrow. We’re talking about AM radio and people fighting to get rid of it. Well, back in 2013, Ajit Pai of the FCC saw the problem looming and embarked on a personal quest to save it. After a little more than a year in the job, he urged the FCC to undertake an overhaul of the AM Radio, which he called the audible core of our national culture.
00:35:01:00 – 00:35:32:15
Joseph
He sees Ammb as vital in emergencies and in rural areas. He goes on to say, And radio is localism. It’s community. And it aims longer. Wavelength means that it can be heard at far greater distances. And so and try that again. AMS Longer wavelength means it can be heard at far greater distances. And so in phrases he said am radio is also going is always going to be there.
00:35:32:18 – 00:35:51:16
Joseph
For example, he cited for Yukon, Alaska, where the AMS station KS EPA broadcasts inquiries about missing hunters and transmits flood alerts during the annual spring ice breakup. I can’t imagine there being an app for that that’s reliable out in Fort Yukon, Alaska.
00:35:51:16 – 00:35:52:14
Sam
Exactly.
00:35:52:16 – 00:35:56:26
Joseph
What do you think about this? The you know, the chairman of the FCC is fighting for this.
00:35:57:02 – 00:36:19:07
Sam
Yeah, I mean, that’s good. It’s good that someone is you know, Ajit Pai is a questionable guy in most aspects of what he does politically. But this seems like something that is a positive thing that he’s doing. You know, it’s it’s good that he is sticking up for it. And, you know, we’ll see, you know, if that continues and what that his support would actually mean in terms of keeping a ham radio around.
00:36:19:09 – 00:36:36:01
Sam
But, you know, having the head of the FCC or I don’t think he’s the head of this, you see, when he was, you know, still having him advocate for that. But, you know, it’s good it’s good to know that there are people higher up that are fighting for it for whatever reason. You know, it’s better to have it than not have it at all.
00:36:36:03 – 00:36:38:10
Joseph
What about Congress? What’s Congress doing for us?
00:36:38:13 – 00:37:06:04
Sam
So they are trying to save game radio as well, with automakers threatening to pull the plug. A backlash by station owners, listeners and legislators prompted Ford to announce it was reversing course on its previous announcement to stop installing and reducing its cars. But with Tesla and the EV manufacturers announcing their intentions to phase out the technology, a congressional subcommittee was debating the merits of proposed legislation to make and receiver standard equipment on new vehicles.
00:37:06:07 – 00:37:08:19
Sam
So just for talking about it, I guess it’s what it sounds like.
00:37:08:22 – 00:37:12:03
Joseph
That’s I think that’s what politicians don’t like.
00:37:12:05 – 00:37:34:25
Sam
Removing a ham radio from cars could dramatically reduce the audience with 70 74% of and listening happening in the car according to Nielsen. Automakers cite audio interference. We covered a little bit of this with electrical motors and the ability to stream stations as justification for phasing out the AM radios, which we already said the market for and listeners and TV users is probably really small.
00:37:34:27 – 00:37:46:18
Sam
The Communications and Technology Subcommittee of the Energy and Commerce Committee, the FCC heard nearly 3 hours of testimony as to why AM should be saved. That must have been a long 3 hours.
00:37:46:20 – 00:37:49:11
Joseph
That was a real as.
00:37:49:14 – 00:38:10:16
Sam
We mentioned this earlier. But the AM radio for every Vehicle act would require, quote, dashboard access to any AM broadcast stations in a quote, manner that is conspicuous to a driver. The primary rationale is am radios integral role in alerting the public of emergency situations as part of a national network. So again, it goes back this thing of if it’s not broke, why do we get rid of it?
00:38:10:16 – 00:38:24:02
Sam
And if it’s something that we could use in an emergency where we can’t really count on anything else, why get rid of it? And I think that’s really what it comes down to. Even if, you know, getting rid of the the entertainment side of it, the talk radio side of it, at the end of the day, it is a utility, right.
00:38:24:03 – 00:38:40:26
Sam
That is used for emergency purposes. And it would be like getting rid of the emergency alert systems in general. Something on that scale like these are important for in times of crisis and it’s something that is a reliable way to make sure that people get the information they need to know to stay safe. Why would we get rid of it?
00:38:40:28 – 00:38:59:13
Joseph
Well, I agree. And the subcommittee even goes on to talk about what we had discussed earlier, that there’s a lot of programing on AM radio that I have no place to go with. AM dying is a quicker than natural death. Hmm. Of course, that’s assuming that, you know, there is a natural death in the future for and to begin with.
00:38:59:15 – 00:39:03:19
Joseph
But Tesla hasn’t been including AM radios in their vehicles for years.
00:39:03:20 – 00:39:05:06
Sam
I don’t know that.
00:39:05:08 – 00:39:29:14
Joseph
And now a number of other manufacturers are kind of following suit there. They claim the electromagnetic interference from batteries generates an audible high frequency hum for and broadcast signals. What doesn’t generate an audible high frequency hum on AM? Everything does. Yep. But it’s been around for over 120 years now. Everyone’s gotten used to it at this point in time.
00:39:29:16 – 00:40:02:28
Joseph
Right. It’s literally, you know, microwave background radiation from the cosmos generates it. Okay. I don’t think your car is going to overpower that. Yeah. You know, but when Ford announced that they would putting game radios in, somebody finally perked up and took notice. Ford CEO Jim Farley said after speaking with policy leaders about the importance of and broadcast radio as part of the emergency alert system, we decided to include it in all of 2024 Ford and Lincoln vehicles.
00:40:02:29 – 00:40:03:04
Joseph
It’s a.
00:40:03:04 – 00:40:10:02
Sam
Great quote. They are sorry we forgot about the emergency alert system. I guess we’ll put them in.
00:40:10:04 – 00:40:35:18
Joseph
Yeah. You know, at least they realize that. But the longer term future for AM kind of kind of is up in the air. They’re still they’re only doing it in their 2024 line. You know, clearly, that’s not a long term plan of theirs. So we need more. Yeah. So what more? Do we have a petition. There’s always a there’s a petition out there for everything.
00:40:35:19 – 00:40:37:00
Sam
And I always work.
00:40:37:03 – 00:40:48:19
Joseph
So Change.org save AM Radio, a part of the Emergency Alert System petition has been put up by ABC Radio. Actually, like the ABC. Yeah.
00:40:48:21 – 00:40:49:07
Sam
How about that?
00:40:49:10 – 00:41:13:01
Joseph
Yeah. As if they had some kind of stake in the race or something, you know, again, they’re pushing the fact that for emergency purposes because, you know, we’re getting more and more weather events, you know, which means there’s more and more need for this. This again. Is it profit for them that they’re pushing this to keep it around because they make money off of them?
00:41:13:02 – 00:41:41:26
Sam
I’ve been trying to find a way to articulate this, but I really do think it goes back to the issue of satellite radio. Right. Because I think I think they probably see AM is not profitable and not worth having the car. I don’t think they really consider the emergency alert aspect of it. But I think if they if they have a partnership of serious where serious pays them and they pay serious to have serious XM in the car when you buy it, I think that that is you know, I think there’s something to be said there of why they’re pushing to get rid of AM so hard FM is going to be a tougher sell
00:41:41:26 – 00:41:46:23
Sam
because people do still pretty regularly listen to FM radio. But I think it starts by getting rid of and.
00:41:46:25 – 00:41:54:15
Joseph
Yeah, I, I can’t disagree with that, but I don’t know if satellite radio is a replacement for AM.
00:41:54:18 – 00:42:01:15
Sam
Well, not like in a realistic sense, but I think in terms of a profit profitability sense for them, for the manufacturer.
00:42:01:20 – 00:42:07:26
Joseph
From that standpoint. Yeah. But from an emergency alert system itself, I don’t think it’s reliable enough for that.
00:42:07:27 – 00:42:10:13
Sam
No, no, no. Not to mention you have to pay a subscription for it, so.
00:42:10:16 – 00:42:39:27
Joseph
Well, and that’s the thing. Like what? What someone like XM could do would be to provide a channel that anyone can access for emergency reasons. Yep. The problem that you have with that is your emergency broadcast system is regionalized. Mm hmm. So if you’re going to have a single channel for emergency broadcasts, you know, for Yukon, Alaska is going to be sending me updates of hunters that are missing and breaking up with their ice cap.
00:42:39:27 – 00:42:42:18
Joseph
And it’s not going to be relevant to me.
00:42:42:23 – 00:42:47:10
Sam
Yeah. Not to mention, I don’t know how you would access that without having, like, Sirius installed in your car.
00:42:47:12 – 00:43:12:17
Joseph
And that’s a thing. Standard radios can’t receive it, whereas literally any standard AM radio can receive and am broadcast. Right. You can get add ons, you know, that will do You can get an AM or a XM tuner that then broadcasts that FM signal that you can pick up, which is what a lot of people did for satellite radio and when it first came out.
00:43:12:18 – 00:43:34:16
Joseph
Mm hmm. But again, it’s it’s ease of use. It’s that’s not available to everybody. So I don’t think it’s probably the best way to go about it either. Now, I don’t know. Well. Well, I guess time will tell where we are with it, but we’re going to take another break here and come back and talk about why a name is fading in some detail.
00:43:34:16 – 00:43:44:06
Joseph
Information on that. We’ll be right back.
00:43:44:09 – 00:44:21:13
MIchelle
Insights into Teens, a podcast series exploring the issues and challenges of today’s youth. Talking to real teens about real teen problems. Explore issues from braces to puberty, social anxiety to financial responsibility. Each week we talk about the topics concerning today’s youth. We look at how the issues affect teens, how to cope with these issues, and how parents, friends and loved ones can help teens handle these challenges.
00:44:21:16 – 00:44:38:15
MIchelle
Check out our video episodes on YouTube.com backslash insights into things. Catch our audio versions on podcast are insights into teens. XCOM or on the web at insights into things.
00:44:38:15 – 00:45:02:23
Joseph
XCOM So is a listener is AM radio dying well? And listenership has been in decline for years now. It’s been losing ground to cleaner sounds of F.M. radio and more recently satellite radio and digital media like podcasts.
00:45:02:25 – 00:45:04:27
Sam
If you’re like and subscribe on YouTube.
00:45:05:00 – 00:45:29:20
Joseph
I guess that makes us part of the problem. But there’s over 4500 AM radio stations nationwide and about 82 million listeners each month. About a third of the audiences for terrestrial radio, according to Nielsen. I didn’t realize it was that large. I mean, that’s a pretty significant amount, especially when you start talking about advertising revenue.
00:45:29:22 – 00:45:47:18
Sam
Yeah, I’d be curious to see how that maps out on a like on a map, you know, like where a lot of these people are concentrated and if it is more rural areas or if it’s more spread out. If I had to wager, I’d say it’s probably more like open areas where it’s, you know, more popular because it’s a reliable form that you can always access.
00:45:47:21 – 00:45:59:12
Joseph
Well, the research that I did says in Chicago and listeners represent 48% of the total monthly radio audience.
00:45:59:14 – 00:46:01:10
Joseph
I’m just skimming here.
00:46:01:16 – 00:46:03:28
Sam
Yeah. And that’s a lot of numbers.
00:46:04:00 – 00:46:28:25
Joseph
I love stats, but I don’t like picking up numbers. It’s tied to Milwaukee and second only to Buffalo at 56%. So you’re talking in big city areas here where you got a lot of listeners and, you know, these are coming from Nielsen ratings here. Once towering top 40 stations like WLS AM 890, I feel like they should be doing it.
00:46:29:03 – 00:46:29:24
Sam
Hey, everybody.
00:46:29:27 – 00:46:33:23
Joseph
Radio ANNOUNCER voice You.
00:46:33:26 – 00:46:35:00
Sam
And.
00:46:35:03 – 00:46:47:07
Joseph
They switched to talk format more than three decades ago and currently ranks 23rd in Chicago with a 1.7 share. No, I don’t know what Nielsen ratings are. Does there’s 1.7 mean anything?
00:46:47:13 – 00:46:50:08
Sam
I have no idea. A share of the market? Probably, if I had to guess.
00:46:50:09 – 00:47:23:21
Joseph
Okay. But you know, a little bit closer to home, you have Philadelphia based Odyssey, which owns two of the top rated AMA stations in Chicago. They talked to the article I read, talked to Craig Schwab, an Illinois native and veteran radio news executive who took the reins at WB AM in January. He spent most of his career in AM radio, which, you know near and dear to your heart, I suppose you know.
00:47:23:27 – 00:47:27:25
Sam
A little bit more popular. And he started.
00:47:27:27 – 00:47:51:11
Joseph
He declined to break down the AM FM audience that split up the station but said the reach of AM signal is crucial for a new especially in emergencies. He goes on to say, I’ve covered a bunch of hurricanes in my time. I don’t know how many hurricanes in Chicago you covered, but okay, anything in different radio markets are okay, he says, And different radio.
00:47:51:15 – 00:47:54:01
Sam
It’s the Windy City.
00:47:54:03 – 00:48:10:25
Joseph
He says. I’ll tell you that when electricity down and cell towers are out and all kinds of things aren’t possible. Televisions not accessible, cell phone signals and batteries die and is there. And it is it’s like a safety blanket.
00:48:10:27 – 00:48:17:07
Sam
A really uncomfortable, scratchy safety blanket, like the one you leave in your car if you get stuck on the side of the road and keeps you alive.
00:48:17:07 – 00:48:39:19
Joseph
So you’re not going to sleep with it. But, you know, it gets the job done. And I think that’s really what it’s like is, you know, that’s kind of the gist of it. So giving your experience with being a AM producer, I want to throw a couple of questions at you in the last few minutes of of the show here and do a little question and answer session.
00:48:39:21 – 00:48:45:20
Joseph
So the first question I have for you is should am be kept alive And if so, why?
00:48:45:22 – 00:49:05:29
Sam
You know, they taught me I was going to say they taught me in journalism school not to ask yes or no questions. But yeah, I definitely think it should be, not just because I’d be out of a job, but because, you know, when it comes down to it, you know, like I said before, throwing out all the talk, all the entertainment stuff out the window, when it comes to am, I think it fundamentally is most important for its emergency broadcast capability.
00:49:06:01 – 00:49:20:16
Sam
And if you were to get rid of that, I don’t know how you would replace that. Like we talked about, Internet is not reliable. Television is not reliable, not as reliable as am. And if it’s not there, how are those messages going to get out? At the end of the day? I think it would it would be a public security risk, honestly.
00:49:20:19 – 00:49:42:20
Joseph
And and I think that’s a fair, fair point. And it kind of leads me into the next question here is, is should government intervene in keeping a ham radio alive for that very reason now? I’m a I’m not an advocate on government intervention. I think every time the government gets involved in something, it’s more likely to get screwed up and cost me more money than it is to fix anything.
00:49:42:22 – 00:49:50:12
Joseph
But because of that public safety aspect of it, is this a government problem? Should the government be doing something to make sure this doesn’t go away?
00:49:50:17 – 00:50:05:19
Sam
I think that’s a slippery slope, honestly. You know, when you’ve got government, if they’re going to intervene with car manufacturers, I think that could go I think it could send a bad message and it could set a dangerous precedent for what government could do in the future if they’re going intervene with something like this, where could they intervene in the future?
00:50:05:21 – 00:50:19:06
Sam
However, I mean, something’s got to be done right if Tesla doesn’t even have AM now. So if you’re in a Tesla, how are you going to get that transmission? They can’t send every American a little tiny hand-crank AM radio, you know, I think I don’t know.
00:50:19:06 – 00:50:21:07
Joseph
I think you can afford it.
00:50:21:09 – 00:50:33:17
Sam
I think in an instance like this. Yeah. Whether it’s whether it’s directly intervening with the auto manufacturers or whether it’s finding some other way to get these transmissions out reliably, I think that, you know, they’ve got to do something.
00:50:33:19 – 00:51:02:16
Joseph
Well, And that’s really the kind of the ultimate follow up question is what can government do? Can government should government regulate what auto manufacturers can do? Should they subsidize if it’s a cost issue, should the government subsidize the cost of radios or should the government mandate we not buy these cars? Like like what else can the government do other than either legislate the car industry or regulate the car industry or subsidize it?
00:51:02:19 – 00:51:22:00
Sam
Yeah, I really have no idea. I mean, it would have to be. Again, there’s always the thing of finding an alternative way to get these messages up. I don’t know what that would. That would be large, like speakers all around the country that would broadcast the these signals if something happened. I have no idea. You know, it’s it’s a tough it’s a tough question to answer.
00:51:22:06 – 00:51:40:20
Joseph
So so, you know, that’s I think that is another alternative is the government can find another medium for it for for for emergency broadcasts. So the next question I have is kind of a personal question to you is do you listen to a ham radio in your car and why or why not?
00:51:40:23 – 00:51:53:08
Sam
I do. Sometimes I figure I want to hear what’s going on at my job just for fun, because we messed up all the time. So it’s nice to hear if I know who’s working, if I know who’s nice and stuff. But otherwise, no, I just. The sound quality is just it’s too big of a hurdle for me to go over.
00:51:53:08 – 00:51:58:27
Sam
I’ve been listening to FM radio my whole life, so it’s really that it comes down to an issue of quality. I just can’t get past it.
00:51:59:00 – 00:52:09:00
Joseph
And I’ll be honest with you, I don’t. I used to listen to AM radio, I used to listen to sports talk radio all the time. There’s a local station here, 610 that needs to close down.
00:52:09:00 – 00:52:10:12
Sam
I work for some of those people now.
00:52:10:15 – 00:52:38:05
Joseph
But the majority of that type of discussion has moved into the FM frequencies now, so I don’t listen to sports radio anymore, but if I did, I’d be listening to it on that. FM And and I think that’s kind of a natural migration of, of the mediums themselves. There’s no reason for them to be on that. FM Other than quality, maybe more accessibility, maybe.
00:52:38:07 – 00:52:44:17
Joseph
I know that they moved from an FM because they saw this happening and they realized that it was it was time to move.
00:52:44:18 – 00:52:59:04
Sam
Well, like most things in life, it’s also a question of money, right? You have a way bigger advertising market when it comes to FM than you do. And so these shows, when they moved to FM, they can they can sell more ads, they can have more listeners, and that cycle can continue on a bigger scale than when they’re on and.
00:52:59:09 – 00:53:10:00
Joseph
That’s a very good point. So so kind of back to the issue at hand here, will not having am radios in cars kill the medium of AM radio.
00:53:10:01 – 00:53:29:21
Sam
Well it certainly wouldn’t help. We had this debt a while ago in the show notes and I can’t find it, but it was like more than 50% of listening FM is in the car. So if that’s taken away, where is that people going to listen? I think just from those numbers alone, if you’re losing more than half your listening audience, yeah, that’s going to be tough to come back from.
00:53:29:23 – 00:53:46:23
Sam
And, you know, asking people to either stream it online, which we do offer, which alleviates the quality problem, by the way, but then you run into the issue of having Internet instead of just having a radio. I think it would. Yeah, I really do. I think losing that that large of a chunk of your listener would be listener base would be tough to come back from.
00:53:46:25 – 00:53:59:24
Joseph
Well if we’re talking about AM keeping AMA around just for the sake of it being an emergency service, do you need listenership when you don’t have an emergency then?
00:53:59:27 – 00:54:05:04
Sam
I mean, you got to keep the lights on, right? I mean, these things, unless you’re being funded directly by the government, you’ve got to get this.
00:54:05:09 – 00:54:08:12
Joseph
Subsidy I was talking about. The government’s going to basically pay for the service.
00:54:08:12 – 00:54:09:21
Sam
I think that’ll be the only way around it.
00:54:09:25 – 00:54:28:18
Joseph
Okay. And the last question that I had and we can kind of wrap things up, what is the future of ham radio if it can be saved today? Is there a long term future, short term? Is it relegated to emergencies? Is there still a consumer grade version of and 20 years from now.
00:54:28:21 – 00:54:52:09
Sam
20 years from now? I don’t know. I think by then it might move more to podcasting. I think if if it’s going to stick around, it’s going to in 20 years, it would probably be more for just emergency purposes, you know, especially during COVID, a lot of stuff got cut around here, A lot of stations closed down because the small listener base, they already had got even smaller because there was a lot more limiting of what it could do because everything was shut down.
00:54:52:11 – 00:54:57:17
Sam
So, yeah, I think in 20 years or probably more, something akin to purely for emergency purposes.
00:54:57:19 – 00:55:24:14
Joseph
Well, and I have to say from a from a strictly podcasting standpoint, one of the biggest advantages of podcasting is literally, if you don’t care too much about quality and production quality, literally anybody can podcast and I know am has a low barrier of cost of entry to get into, but it’s not free and podcasting is not for you either.
00:55:24:17 – 00:55:53:24
Joseph
But you could generate a podcast on your phone if you wanted to. Yeah. So it’s a lot easier for people to produce content from that and then publish it somewhere on free sites again, it’s you’re talking about a different audience and a different barrier to entry for your consumers for it. But as a, as a podcaster, well, I can’t say it’s cheap to podcast because the level that we podcasts on is very expensive.
00:55:53:27 – 00:56:21:11
Joseph
But for someone who just wants to create an audio podcast and doesn’t want to go crazy with mixers and mikes and all that stuff, you can do it for next to nothing. Know you can produce content on the internet for next to nothing can you? AM radio claim the same thing? Like what’s what’s your cost to cheap for someone that they want to produce this type show just audio on AM What would something like this cost roughly?
00:56:21:13 – 00:56:42:11
Sam
Well I mean it would be dependent because you know how we do things is people pay us to be on the air. So we basically facilitate, we give them the studio and then they buy the time to talk. So, you know, I mean, it would be what we’ve got is on the level of this mine is we don’t have any video components, but in terms of the audio quality, we have the same, if not slightly better audio equipment there.
00:56:42:13 – 00:57:01:24
Sam
And a lot of it is the built in audience you’re getting by by being on the AM station. You’ve already got our built in listener base now is that it would depend on what your product is, what your podcast is about, if that listener base is going to listen to that. So I think that’s, you know, you’d have to look at your market and your demographics from that.
00:57:01:26 – 00:57:27:10
Sam
But that’s really what it is, is getting that built in audience, being getting that guaranteed transmission from the same time every week or whenever you would want it. And I think that’s the biggest selling point. And, you know, we go back to the reliability of AM and the accessibility of it. If you’re if you’re broadcasting on AM, people may have an easier way of accessing your content that might not be familiar with how to access things on the Internet or how to access things, you know, on YouTube or things like that.
00:57:27:12 – 00:57:49:07
Joseph
Okay. I think it’s a fair point. So there’s certain tradeoffs. It’s not a 1 to 1 comparison between the two. Okay. I mean, I think we’ve kind of drawn this out to a kind of a conclusion and wait and see at this point, you know, it’s not going anywhere anytime soon, but the future is in bright for it.
00:57:49:07 – 00:57:53:00
Sam
No, I would not know. I would say it is not right now.
00:57:53:03 – 00:57:56:21
Joseph
So appreciate the AM radio that you have now.
00:57:56:22 – 00:58:03:22
Sam
I cherish it. Yes. And, you know, mail the money on envelopes full of cash.
00:58:03:25 – 00:58:28:12
Joseph
Buckets and buckets. Yeah. All right. I think that’s all we have for today. Before we go, I want to take an opportunity once again to invite folks to subscribe to audio and video versions of the podcast. You can find audio versions of this podcast listeners insights into tomorrow, both audio and video can be found listed as insights into things we are on.
00:58:28:12 – 00:58:49:11
Joseph
Anywhere you get a podcast Pandora, Amazon, tune in. One thing I would ask though, that we haven’t been pushing for is if you can give us a rating, give us a thumbs up, you know, give us a review as you want. Let people know what kind of program we produce here, what kind of quality we have. I’d even take constructive feedback, constructive criticism.
00:58:49:17 – 00:59:16:10
Joseph
If there’s things that we can do better, We’re always looking to improve things. Now you can write us that directly to us. You can email us at comments and insights into things dot com. You can hit us on Twitter, at Twitter, at Blair. Yeah. Okay. Don’t comment on that one. No, you can hit us on Twitter at insights, underscore things you can find us on twitch streaming five days a week at Twitch dot TV slash insights into things.
00:59:16:13 – 00:59:43:12
Joseph
Just a side note, if you do have an Amazon Prime subscription, you do get a free monthly twitch prime. You can throw that away. That would help us out a lot. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com slash Insights into Things podcast or on Instagram, and insights into things where you can find all these links and more on our website at WW w that insights into things dot com and that’s it another one in the.
00:59:43:12 – 00:59:44:27
Sam
Books they say about everybody.
00:59:44:27 – 00:59:45:17
Joseph
By.