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Insights Into Entertainment: Episode 145 ”Help Me Obi-Wan Kenobi”

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So today we’re going to discuss the current state of Star Wars. We’ll take a look at how the franchise has progressed since Disney took ownership and what their stewardship looks like. Then we’ll take a dive into some of the properties that have come out recently and the trend towards streaming.

We’ll give our thoughts and opinions on the recently completed Obi-Wan Series. Then we’ll take a look at what the current forecasted future of the franchise looks like and where we think it’s going.

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Show Notes

[INTRO THEME]

[INTRODUCTIONS] (2-3 minutes)

  • Insights Into Entertainment: Episode 145 “Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi”
  • My special guest host today is Sam Whalen, host of our Insights Into Tomorrow Podcast

[SHOW SUMMARY] (2-3 minutes)

  • We’re changing things up a bit on today’s episode of Insights Into Entertainment.
  • Not only do we have a special guest host today but we’re also going a bit off our normal format.
  • Sam and I have been itching to have this discussion for some time now and thought it was best to do it on our Entertainment podcast.
  • So today we’re going to discuss the current state of Star Wars.
  • We’ll take a look at how the franchise has progressed since Disney took ownership and what their stewardship looks like.
  • Then we’ll take a dive into some of the properties that have come out recently and the trend towards streaming.
  • We’ll give our thoughts and opinions on the recently completed Obi-Wan Series.
  • Then we’ll take a look at what the current forecasted future of the franchise looks like and where we think it’s going.

[Show Plugs] (2-3 minutes)

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[TRANSITION]

[SEGMENT 1:] (8-12 minutes)

Disney trying to get their money’s worth from the franchise.

  • A long time ago in a galaxy not too far away Disney announced it’s deal to buy Lucasfilm for $4.05 billion in October of 2012
  • Disney decided to quickly capitalize on this with a sequel trilogy, but instead of using ideas already developed by Lucas decided to go off on their own, with mixed results
  • In 2015 we got the first film to follow the acquisition, The Force Awakens which grossed over $2 billion at the box office, at the time the highest grossing film in Disney history
  • In 2017 Episode 8 of the series The Last Jedi dropped to what could be charitably described as mixed opinions
  • In 2019 the final movie in the sequel trilogy The Rise of Skywalker summed up the Skywalker Saga despite stumbling over itself to correct some of the inconsistencies and open issues from the previous movies in the series

Even Disney can learn lessons on movie making

  • Interspersed between sequels we were to get one off movies delving into backstories and little explored regions of the Star Wars Galaxy
  • First up was Rogue One: A Star Wars Story in 2016
    • Arguably the single best Star Wars movie put out in the Disney era
    • It could very well be one of the best Star Wars movies out of all of them depending on who you ask
    • It was a familiar return to the story telling from the original Star Wars, if you could get passed some of the creepy CGI portrayals
  • Then in 2018 we got Solo: A Star Wars Story
    • Which really should have been titled Solo: A Movie We Didn’t  Need
    • While technically a success at the box office this was a creative flop for the franchise
    • So much so that it caused Disney to completely rethink their one movie a year strategy for the franchise
    • Instead of successfully milking the project like they did Marvel, Disney flooded the market and turned off the majority of the fan base
    • The movie wasn’t particularly good, for various reasons.
      • The writing was weak
      • Casting was terrible with the exception of Donald Glover
      • Their inability to hold a director didn’t help
      • And the story they were trying to tell simply didn’t need to be told
  • After this failure Disney learned it’s lesson and switched from Movies to Streaming

Disney + and Star Wars Fatigue

  • Disney gave us some animated television shows such as Rebels in 2014, Resistance in 2018
  • After initially canceling the last series of Clone Wars they closed out that series if for no other reason than to use it as a springboard to launch Bad Batch in 2021
    • Disney initial flex, closing Lucas games, canceling 1313, canceling clone wars despite it being in its stride, Unfinished animated episodes coming to Netflix.
  • Then something magical happened, Star Wars Live action.
    • We got our first glimpse of this in the form of The M andalorian in 2019
      • This itself served as a springboard for a flurry of new series some of which we’re still waiting to officially launch
    • We got the Book of Boba Fett in 2021 (which really wound up being the Book of Everyone but Boba Fett).
  • There are a number of series in the works but we’ll talk about these later in the show
  • It’s very clear that Disney is investing heavily in live action television as the future of Star Wars and it is being more well received than their attempt to flood us with movies.

[AD 1]

[SEGMENT 2:] (8-12 minutes)

The Current State of Star Wars

  • The Mandalorian, now filming for a Season 3
  • The Bad Batch, in post production for Season 2
  • The Book of Boba Fett, a limited series that’s had it’s run
  • Obi-Wan, a limited series that’s now had it’s run

[AD 2]

[SEGMENT 3: Insightful Picks of the Week] (8-12 minutes)

The Future of Star Wars

  • Movies
    • Star Wars: Rogue Squadron
      • In December 2020, it was announced that Patty Jenkins would be leading the charge on Star Wars: Rogue Squadron
        • An upcoming movie that will follow the famed group of X-Wing pilots featured in various Star Wars books and video games over the years
        • A group that until the big announcement, had yet to be featured in any film or television property in the franchise. 
      • There has been a ton of news about the project in the year since its announcement, including reports that the movie was put on indefinite hold. 
        • Star Wars: Rogue Squadron is still scheduled for a December 2023 theatrical release, but it remains to be seen if it will keep that date when factoring in Taika Waititi’s planned movie, which is expected to arrive around late 2023 (more on that in a bit).
    • J.D. Dillard Standalone Movie – TBD
      • J.D. Dillard, the filmmaker responsible for the 2016 indie sci-fi hit Sleight, has been selected to direct his own Star Wars movie 
        • The news was first reported by The Hollywood Reporter in February 2020, but few details were available at the time. 
        • When the project was first announced, it wasn’t entirely known if the movie would hit theaters or be released as a standalone film on Disney+. 
    • Kevin Feige-Produced Standalone Movie – TBD
      • One of the most anticipated upcoming Star Wars projects is the Kevin Feige-produced standalone film that was first announced in September 2019. 
        • There aren’t a lot of — or really any — details at this point, but we’re talking about the man who built the Marvel Cinematic Universe from a relatively obscure cast of comic characters to the most successful movie franchise in recent memory.
      • In a February 2020 conversation with The Hollywood Reporter, Endgame director Joe Russo said that Star Wars was Kevin Feige’s first and true love, adding that Feige’s vision for the franchise will be passionate, emotional, and unique. 
        • And while we’ll probably be waiting on this one for some time, the wait will definitely be worth it. 
        • In January 2021, Deadline revealed that Loki executive producer Michael Waldron was being tasked with writing the film’s script. 
        • Nothing else has been confirmed as of June 2022.
    • Taika Waititi Standalone Movie – TBD
      • It was confirmed in May 2020 that Waititi would be making a standalone movie. 
        • There aren’t a lot of details about the still-untitled project at this point in time, but he did say that he and 1917 writer Krysty Wilson-Cairns were in the process of penning the script in July 2020.
      • The untitled Waititi film was touched upon during Disney’s 2020 Investor call during which Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy described it as “fresh, unexpected, and… unique.” 
        • Waititi had some fun regarding the mystery project on social media after the official Star Wars Twitter account provided a quick update on the project, which pretty much ended with the Thor: Love and Thunder director jokingly saying he was angry about how much he was going to ruin the franchise. 
        • In May 2022, Kathleen Kennedy told Total Film that Waiti’s project is the next Star Wars movie and that they were aiming for a “Late 2023” release. 
    • Rian Johnson Trilogy
      • There was a great deal of backlash following the release of Rian Johnson’s Star Wars: The Last Jedi, but the franchise is far from done with him. 
        • Prior to the release of Johnson’s 2017 film, Lucasfilm announced that their collaboration with Johnson would continue with the development of an entire new trilogy of movies. 
        • Johnson was quick to shoot down rumors about the mysterious project in December 2019, and there hasn’t been much news on the project since.
  • Streaming
    • Andor
      • Diego Luna is set to reprise his role as rebel spy Cassian Andor in Disney+ series “Andor” which will take place five years before the events of “Rogue One” during the earlier days of the Rebellion. 
        • The series is expected for an August 31 release. 
    • Ahsoka
      • The character Ahsoka Tano is best known for appearing in the various episodes of the “Star Wars: The Clone Wars” and “Star Wars Rebels” animated series. 
        • Her first appearance on “The Mandalorian” suggested that she might pick up one of the loose threads of “Rebels”: her hunt for the Empire’s Grand Admiral Thrawn, one of the Star Wars Expanded Universe’s fan-favorite villains, dating back to Timothy Zahn’s novel “Heir to the Empire” in 1991.
    • The Mandalorian Season 3
      • Yes, Baby Yoda will be back in “The Mandalorian” Season 3. 
        • Following the surprise after credits scene during “The Book of Boba Fett” finale otherwise known as Mandalorian Season 2.5, fans are geared up and ready to see Pedro Pascal back in action as our favorite bounty hunter. 
        • The third installment began filming in October 2021 and will debut in February 2023.
    • Skeleton Crew
      • Jude Law is set to lead Jon Watts’ first foray into the “Star Wars” canon. 
        • The series follows the fall of the Empire through the eyes of four children, aged 11 to 12 years old. 
        • The series, previously codenamed as “Grammar Rodeo,” is described as a “galactic version of classic Amblin coming-of-age adventure films of the ’80s.” 
        • Law’s role is not yet announced. 
    • Rangers of the New Republic
      • The new series will follow a group of X-wing pilots during the same timeline as “The Mandalorian.” 
        • Reportedly, “Rangers of the New Republic” will connect other Disney+ shows like “Ahsoka” and tie in a complete “Star Wars” TV universe, building to an epic crossover event.
        • After Gina Carano’s departure from the franchise the fate of this series was said to be up in the air.
    • Lando
      • While Donald Glover portrayed the younger version of Lando Calrissian (originated by Billy Dee Williams) in “Solo: A Star Wars Story,” it’s unclear yet whether the “Atlanta” star will reprise the role in the Disney+ standalone series. 
    • The Acolyte
      • Described as “a mystery-thriller that will take the audience into a galaxy of shadowy secrets and emerging dark side powers in the final days of the High Republic era.” 
        • “The Acolyte” will take place in the final days of the High Republic era of the “Star Wars” timeline, centering on a Sith who begins training under an experienced Sith Lord. 
    • A Droid Story
      • Animated feature “A Droid Story” will combine original “Star Wars” animation with new visual effects from Lucasfilm’s Industrial Light & Magic division. 
        • The film will premiere on Disney+, and introduce a “new hero guided by the iconic duo of R2-D2 and C-3PO on a mission known only to them,”
    • Tales of the Jedi
      • Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi will land on Disney+ at some point in Fall 2022. 
        • According to IGN, the new anthology series will tell the stories of Ahsoka and Count Dooku by focusing on different parts of their lives. 
        • On top of that, the upcoming series will also see the return of Liam Neeson’s Qui-Gon Jinn. 
    • Star Wars Visions Season 2
      • The series will return to Disney+ for a second collection of short animated films at some point in Spring 2023, per a post by the official Star Wars Twitter account.
    • Young Jedi Adventures
      • The first full-length animated Star Wars series created specifically for preschoolers will soon be coming to both Disney+ and Disney Junior. 
        • The series will follow younglings as they follow the path of the Jedi in the High Republic era and learn about compassion, self-discipline, and the power of friendship. 
        • An exact release date has not yet been announced, but the series is slated to premiere at some point in Spring 2023.

[TRANSITION]

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Transcription

00:00:01:16 – 00:00:47:25
Michelle
Insightful podcasts informative host insights into things, a podcast network Welcome to Insights into Entertainment, a podcast series taking a deeper look into entertainment and media Your host Joseph and Michelle Whelan, a husband and wife team of pop culture fanatics, are exploring all things from music and movies to television and fandom.

00:00:51:04 – 00:01:08:01
Joseph
Welcome to Insights into Entertainment. This is episode one 45. Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi. I’m your host, Joseph Whalen, and my special guest host today is Sam Whalen, host of Our Insights. And it’s more a podcast. Hello there. How are you doing, Sam?

00:01:08:01 – 00:01:08:23
Sam
Good. How are you doing?

00:01:09:00 – 00:01:44:05
Joseph
Good. Thank you for joining us today. So this discussion kind of came about. You know, we’ve we’ve been itching to have this discussion for quite some time now. We’ve finished the Obi-Wan series now so we can finally have the whole conversation. So today we’re going to discuss the current state of Star Wars. Believe it or not, we’re actually coming up on the 10th anniversary of Disney taking over Lucasfilm We’ll take a look at how the franchise has progressed since Disney took ownership and what their stewardship looks like.

00:01:45:03 – 00:02:12:21
Joseph
Then we’ll take a deep dove into the properties that have come out recently and the trend toward streaming. We’ll give our thoughts and opinions on Obi-Wan and then we’ll take a look at what the current forecast at future of the franchise looks like and where we think it’s going. But before we do that, though, I would invite our listening and viewing audience to subscribe to the podcast You can find audio versions of this podcast listed as insights in the entertainment.

00:02:13:20 – 00:02:33:22
Joseph
Both video and audio can be found on all of the networks. Podcast listeners, insights into things, and we can be found anywhere. You get a podcast, period, Spotify and so forth. We’d also invite you to read and give us your feedback. Tell us how we’re doing, give us your suggestions. You can email us at comments and insights into things.

00:02:33:27 – 00:02:43:29
Joseph
Com or check out our official website at w WW that insights into things dot com for all of our social media. Ready to get into it?

00:02:44:12 – 00:02:52:06
Sam
Yeah, before we get into it. Full spoilers for everything so if you haven’t seen the new sequel movies, you haven’t seen Obi-Wan. We’re going full spoilers, just so you know.

00:02:52:07 – 00:02:54:26
Joseph
All right. Good warning there. Here we go.

00:03:00:22 – 00:03:42:02
Joseph
So Disney is trying to get their money’s worth from the franchise. So we all know that back in 20, 12 or thereabouts, Disney basically bought Lucasfilm for about little over $4 billion They wanted to quickly capitalize on this by putting out their own trilogy, which kind of worked out for them, I guess We’ll get into that later. So they put out the first film in 2015 with Force Awakens that brought in $2 billion And at the time it was the highest grossing film in Disney history, which was kind of impressive.

00:03:42:25 – 00:03:48:23
Joseph
Then we got that complete mess of a movie, Last Jedi in 2017.

00:03:48:24 – 00:03:51:24
Sam
People are hard on that. It’s not that bad, guys. Come on.

00:03:52:28 – 00:04:00:00
Joseph
Then they, then they finish murdering the franchise. In 2019 with the rise of Skywalker.

00:04:00:01 – 00:04:02:29
Sam
That one’s pretty bad. I really don’t. I don’t enjoy that movie.

00:04:03:11 – 00:04:11:00
Joseph
Hey, the one thing about Rise of Skywalker is you didn’t have Luke Skywalker milking any usually director of animal.

00:04:11:01 – 00:04:11:29
Sam
That’s what the people wanted.

00:04:12:10 – 00:04:18:13
Joseph
Yeah, that’s exactly what we wanted. Do you think their investment was worth it at this point?

00:04:18:21 – 00:04:20:17
Sam
I mean, they made their money, right? So.

00:04:21:08 – 00:04:24:29
Joseph
Well, yeah. Breaking even is not really a sound investment.

00:04:24:29 – 00:04:41:11
Sam
You I don’t know. I think for Disney, you know, they want to. They clearly want to be a media. Some may say monopoly. Others may say a conglomerate. I just looked it up. They acquired Marvel in 2009. So three years after that, they buy Star Wars, I think. I mean, they’ve made it part of the Disney brand, for better or worse.

00:04:41:11 – 00:04:53:28
Sam
I think for them, if they want to make a if they want to appeal to every possible demographic, owning Star Wars is going to help that. You know, maybe if you’re not a comic book fan, a lot of people are Star Wars fans and that’s a huge audience you’re grabbing right there.

00:04:53:29 – 00:05:20:04
Joseph
So yeah, and I think no matter what you do and they’ve kind of proven at least when it was under under Lucasfilm, when it was under George Lucas, the way that they handled their licensing, they basically showed that even though it was very expensive and it still was very expensive to license Disney to produce anything for it, or Star Wars, rather, you can’t help but make money doing it.

00:05:20:13 – 00:05:21:02
Joseph
Yeah. Think the fan.

00:05:21:02 – 00:05:21:27
Sam
Base is very dedicated.

00:05:21:27 – 00:05:40:15
Joseph
Right? It’s just a moneymaker, no matter what. What might differ is your profit margins. You know, you’re not going to be raking in 70, 80, 90 100% profit margins. You might be raking in a guaranteed 30%, but you know what? A 30% return, guaranteed return on investment is a pretty good return on investment.

00:05:40:16 – 00:05:57:12
Sam
Yeah. And they definitely know their market. They know that most Star Wars fans, it’s going to be pretty much impossible to turn them off from the franchise. Maybe not, you know, every property, certainly most people aren’t reading every book and every comic I’m not right. But anything that’s a TV show or movie, most Star Wars fans are going to go check that out.

00:05:57:16 – 00:06:15:28
Joseph
And I agree. And I think, you know, we’ll talk a little bit more about where they made some mistakes in a minute or so here. But I think Disney is smart enough to know what property they have and how to how to milk and how to get their money’s worth out of it. They’ve been doing it for almost well over 100 years now.

00:06:15:29 – 00:06:20:28
Sam
Yeah. And do we want to go movie by movie? Because I because Force Awakens is a great example of that. Kicking it off.

00:06:20:29 – 00:06:22:14
Joseph
Oh, absolutely. Go right into it.

00:06:22:15 – 00:06:38:22
Sam
You know, you get J.J. Abrams. He did it with Star Trek. You know, he took Star Trek and kind of made it more for mass appeal, for better or worse, if you’re a Star Trek fan. Some people had problems with that, but he basically did the same thing for Star Wars. I mean, it’s clearly it’s the new hope again, but it’s updated with modern visuals.

00:06:38:22 – 00:06:50:11
Sam
It’s a very it’s hard to not like that movie. I love that movie. And I know it has its issues, but it just I think it did a great job capturing what Star Wars was and what it could have been.

00:06:50:11 – 00:07:10:11
Joseph
And I agree. I think Force Awakens was a good movie to kick off the new franchise because it reintroduces people who are familiar with it. And it’s comfortable for those people. And it’s a great way of easing other people into it. The critical difference between what he did with Star Trek and what he did with Star Wars is Star Trek.

00:07:10:11 – 00:07:37:15
Joseph
He did he had a loophole Star Trek was it was it was an alternate time. Oh, yeah. So it’s Star Trek, you could say, oh, okay, this is an interesting story, but that’s really not what happened because here’s the official timeline and that’s where he gets the L. So with this, you don’t get that. The problem, I think that we really ran into it for So Awakens was you took a universe that you know and you didn’t relaunch it.

00:07:38:06 – 00:07:58:02
Joseph
You moved it 30 years in the future. And it’s a completely different universe, and you have no idea how you got there. Yep. And Disney trying to fill in some of that backstory with the novels and the video games that people aren’t going to consume. So people walk out of the movie theater scratching their head thinking, what the hell is the first order?

00:07:58:03 – 00:08:06:26
Joseph
Who’s this new Snoke guy like it did? It did a very bad job of introducing things because there was almost an assumption that you knew what was going on.

00:08:07:06 – 00:08:20:19
Sam
And I think that comes with it being a what’s the phrase, soft reboot where you just make the same movie again, but it’s the same universe, right? Because everybody will just say they won’t think about it too hard and it’s just the empire again. It’s just the rebels again. But it’s like if we’re thinking about the context of the universe, it’s like the rebels.

00:08:20:19 – 00:08:48:29
Sam
One why are they still rebels? You know? But the other thing is, if we’re going to hit it probably a million times in this discussion is the lack of planning, I think because, you know, the way Abrams does things is he has mystery boxes, very introduces things. And he may or may not answer those questions later. But when there’s no plan and he doesn’t know if he’s coming back for more movies, those those questions definitely never get answered or they get answered in ways that was never intended to be answered, which you get in The Last Jedi.

00:08:49:12 – 00:08:55:12
Sam
So I think from the very beginning, the lack of planning is kind of the thing that, you know, was this was doomed from the start.

00:08:55:12 – 00:09:19:23
Joseph
Maybe it was kind of a clash of styles with some of the classic stuff, too. Like like the biggest reveal in the history of Star Wars was End of Empire Strikes Back, where Darth Vader is Luke’s father. Well, they did a similar reveal in Force Awakens in the first 10 minutes of the movie where Kylo Ren is the son of handing Luke a hint hint of Luke that would have been interesting.

00:09:19:23 – 00:09:38:12
Joseph
He’s adopted the same hand and Leia, and he wears this man like Darth Vader, which comes off in the first 15 minutes. And it’s like every reveal that there could have been was like out of the bag, like the first four scenes what you get. So it kind of was a clash of styles.

00:09:38:12 – 00:09:55:24
Sam
Do yeah I don’t know I like that because it to me it was they’re trying to make Kylo more of a character you know Darth Vader you don’t get his character until Jedi where you find out he’s you know he was a he kind of gets redeemed in that movie whereas with Kylo they skip all the reveals right away so we can see him as more of a person and you know, he throws temper tantrums and stuff.

00:09:55:24 – 00:10:01:13
Sam
But I think the big reveal for Force Awakens is Han dying, right? I mean, that’s like that’s in the similar vein.

00:10:01:13 – 00:10:25:15
Joseph
I would agree. I would agree. And the way that he died, I think was acceptable. Okay. You know, like a lot of a lot of people will flashback to the origin of the expanding universe novels in the first original character that was ever killed off in the expanding universe was Chewbacca. And he was killed off in the first series of the New Jedi Order books.

00:10:26:04 – 00:10:45:08
Joseph
And they killed him by dropping a moon on him while he was saving one of Hand’s kids, which was the you know, you couldn’t come up with a better way to have a death scene than that in a book and then can’t get stabbed and falls off a bridge with his son. So it was kind of like it was anti-climatic.

00:10:45:08 – 00:10:46:22
Joseph
How they wind up killing it.

00:10:46:26 – 00:10:54:18
Sam
Yeah, I just I don’t know. It’s I guess if we’re doing if we’re keeping in trend of it being new hope, I guess he’s supposed to take the place of the Ben Kenobi.

00:10:54:18 – 00:11:16:15
Joseph
Darth, right. And the end. Ben Kenobi dying propelled Luke down this path of being a Jedi. Yeah. Where and dying really lended nothing to the character development as much as they wanted it to. It lended nothing to the character development of Kylo Ren. Yeah. He trying to revisit it in the last Jedi, and it just didn’t work.

00:11:16:15 – 00:11:17:12
Sam
And Rise of Skywalker.

00:11:17:19 – 00:11:18:00
Joseph
Yeah.

00:11:18:06 – 00:11:19:05
Sam
When he comes back as a ghost.

00:11:19:11 – 00:11:20:22
Joseph
And it doesn’t work for him.

00:11:20:28 – 00:11:29:15
Sam
Yeah, I again, I think it all goes back to that lack of planning. You know, you could have you could have saved something like that for a later movie if you knew you were going to do it right.

00:11:29:16 – 00:11:47:22
Joseph
If you knew you were making that trilogy, I could totally see that being. And it probably was because when of the originally happened, the, the understanding was that J.J. Abrams was going to make the trilogy and then he had a scheduling conflict with Last Jedi and we wind up having Rian Johnson Rian Johnson’s stuff into the Last Jedi.

00:11:47:22 – 00:11:53:26
Joseph
And, and by all accounts, all Rian Johnson’s other films were fantastic.

00:11:55:26 – 00:11:58:18
Joseph
What happened with Last Jedi? I don’t know.

00:11:58:19 – 00:12:07:24
Sam
I still think Last Jedi in terms of direction is like one of the best, like in terms of cinematography and stuff. It’s like that in a Rogue one, like no other Star Wars movie looks like that in terms of how it’s shot.

00:12:07:27 – 00:12:21:19
Joseph
I have a different well, okay, it’s different. I’ll give you that. I’m not gonna argue with that. The fact that they start the joke that the, the movie off with, like, your mom joke is kind of a slap in the face.

00:12:21:23 – 00:12:22:26
Sam
The whole thing’s a slap in the.

00:12:22:26 – 00:12:39:26
Joseph
Face, right? It is and really, it’s the entire movie took everything that was established in Force Awakens and threw it out the window. Yep. And it was like, Oh, okay, you only got another movie left in this trilogy. What are you going to do?

00:12:39:26 – 00:12:56:01
Sam
Yeah. And there is there is merit in, you know, trying something new with Star Wars and, you know, not just doing the same thing over and over again, even though would have made you infinite money. But it’s not great when you make it a pillar movie of the franchise. Maybe give Rian Johnson a Star Wars story first. Yeah.

00:12:56:08 – 00:12:57:11
Sam
And have him work it out.

00:12:57:12 – 00:12:57:19
Joseph
Yeah.

00:12:57:29 – 00:13:09:19
Sam
But I think if you’re going to have this especially coming off Force Awakens, which was very much just new hope again and played it very safe with pretty much everything, to have it be such a drastic change, I think was was a difficult call.

00:13:09:19 – 00:13:26:24
Joseph
And I and I, as much as a harp and I rail against Rian Johnson’s the abuse of the franchise, it’s not his fault. It’s the fault of Kathleen Kennedy and the other executive. Yeah. Who saw this before it went out the door and allowed it to go out the door. Yeah.

00:13:26:24 – 00:13:29:28
Sam
I wonder what the behind the scenes were like on that, like how that got that far.

00:13:30:18 – 00:13:54:15
Joseph
Like it was embarrassing to see something like that. But Luke Skywalker, John King master is milking a cow, okay. And stuff. It was it was just and the whole premise of the movie being a rehash of of really someone my age, it was a rehash of, of the O.J. Simpson chase. It was a slow white Bronco chase where.

00:13:54:15 – 00:14:04:21
Joseph
Oh, yeah. You know, you just there no one in the history of Star Wars ever ran out of gas. I’m sorry. Think that whole premise itself would just reek.

00:14:04:24 – 00:14:23:11
Sam
Yeah. And it’s things like that where like when you’re going to release a main movie in the franchise, people are going to ask questions. They’re going to be much more critical of it. So, like, give them give them a side story, you know, give em a TV show while they weren’t doing TV shows at the time, but do a side story, you know, it’s maybe they were taking a risk because they had maybe because they know he’s a good filmmaker.

00:14:23:11 – 00:14:32:04
Sam
Maybe they thought he could pull it off. But I think and I’m sure they’re I’m sure he didn’t write Ender. Not entirely. I had to see the other writers are because of writing is a big part of that as well.

00:14:32:04 – 00:14:32:29
Joseph
Right. I agree.

00:14:32:29 – 00:14:34:00
Sam
But I just think it.

00:14:34:19 – 00:14:51:18
Joseph
It was a reputation. I mean, he got the movie based on his reputation and his reputation was for making some non standards films, you know, I mean he was a revolutionary director and what he’s done.

00:14:51:18 – 00:14:53:15
Sam
And I’ve only seen Looper that’s you know, the feeling of it.

00:14:53:15 – 00:15:02:23
Joseph
I’ve seen I don’t know what they expected out of him other than something that was unconventional and it was unconventional. Yeah, but unconventional. It is not Star Wars.

00:15:03:06 – 00:15:19:17
Sam
Yeah. And it’s difficult not to compare it to the MCU because it’s like the same company now. And eventually they clearly were trying to go for something like that, right? Where it’s like all the MCU movies are directed by different people. But when you get an Avengers movie or a Civil War where it’s like everybody shows up.

00:15:19:17 – 00:15:21:17
Joseph
There’s a time line they have to abide by.

00:15:21:17 – 00:15:30:03
Sam
Exactly. There’s a Kevin Feige at the top who’s saying, Hey, we got to. Even in the individual movies, Kevin Feige is coming in and saying, Hey, we got to stick with this.

00:15:30:03 – 00:15:42:07
Joseph
There’s an overall master who’s who’s directing the plot like you have to go from point A to point B. How you do that is up to you in the movie. But at the end of the movie, you have to be at point begins with the rule is yeah.

00:15:42:08 – 00:15:54:08
Sam
And there are some negative aspects to that because you see MCU directors fired all the time for creative differences, a.k.a. they’re not sticking to the cookie cutter. Disney wants formula, but the benefit of that is that you get a cohesive narrative.

00:15:54:19 – 00:16:17:17
Joseph
And when you’re doing it over the course of ten or more movies, you need that or it’s complete chaos. Look at what happened to the Marvel Properties. Before Disney took over. You know, look at the Star, the Spider-Man movies, look at the Fantastic Four movie. Yep, it was a mess. They were all over the place. There was there was consistency issues, there were continuity issues.

00:16:17:17 – 00:16:24:14
Joseph
There was nobody who was helming the entire thing. And that’s the one thing that that Disney has at least done with the Marvel side of things.

00:16:24:16 – 00:16:38:00
Sam
Yeah. And I’m hoping and we’ll get to Dave Filoni later. He’s the guy in charge of, you know, Clone Wars and Rebels and things like that. I think he’s the closest we have to a Kevin figure in this universe with how he’s worked on Mandalorian and elements of Boba Fett and the Asoka Show coming up. We’ll get to all that later.

00:16:38:07 – 00:16:41:27
Sam
But I think that’s a it’s a something that I think is hopeful for the franchise going forward.

00:16:41:28 – 00:16:49:23
Joseph
Absolutely. Let’s finally bash a little bit on rise of Skywalker and finish up with the star had tried before removal.

00:16:49:24 – 00:16:56:01
Sam
I guess that’s my least favorite movie in all of all of them even the prequels it’s I just can’t stand that. It’s terrible.

00:16:56:11 – 00:17:14:10
Joseph
I, I think J.J. Abrams kind of got stuck with a raw deal. He had a vision when he started Force Awakens that was thrown out with Last Jedi, and he had to spend half of the rise of Skywalker fixing all the stuff that Rian Johnson broken last year.

00:17:14:11 – 00:17:15:11
Sam
It felt like two movies.

00:17:15:14 – 00:17:20:03
Joseph
Yeah, it did, because he had he had a basically retcon Last Jedi.

00:17:20:10 – 00:17:39:29
Sam
Which, like, is just so sloppy. And again, we go back to the lack of planning. That’s like ridiculous when you’re spending billions of dollars on these movies and you have to spend half just from a production and like a narrative standpoint having to redo and or undo, you know, a half or a third of your trilogy is like ridiculous.

00:17:39:29 – 00:17:40:27
Sam
Like, how does that happen?

00:17:41:04 – 00:17:53:03
Joseph
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And I think it’s because he had a vision of where he wanted to go, didn’t lost the control in the middle there and had to try to regain it. And I’m really you had to resurrect conflating, like.

00:17:53:03 – 00:17:55:01
Sam
Somehow not within his return. No.

00:17:55:02 – 00:18:05:23
Joseph
Mind you, if anyone follows the expanding universe, Palpatine comes back a couple of times and every time that he comes back in the expanding universe, it’s a stretch. Okay?

00:18:05:27 – 00:18:06:21
Sam
It’s, like, ridiculous.

00:18:06:21 – 00:18:30:24
Joseph
Yeah, it is. And for him to come back here and not only did they bring him back they had foreshadowed him coming back when they had in McDermid, who plays Palpatine, show up at Star Wars celebration months before the movie came out because the trailer they put in the Emperor laughing. Yeah. And then they bring and it was like there was there was no surprise whatsoever.

00:18:30:24 – 00:18:32:25
Joseph
You knew exactly what was going to happen.

00:18:33:06 – 00:18:37:23
Sam
The question was, oh, it’ll be really cool how they show it. And then they did it right.

00:18:37:23 – 00:18:40:07
Joseph
Right. And then it wasn’t cool when they showed it.

00:18:40:14 – 00:18:51:18
Sam
They’re still trying to explain it. You know, we’ve gotten some hints of cloning and siphoning baby Yoda blood, I guess, for medical reasons, but we still don’t have a concrete explanation as to how it came back.

00:18:51:18 – 00:19:20:09
Joseph
Well, and the kicker is, had they gone down the original round of the expanding universe and went, which is the direction they’re going now? Mind Yeah. Went the path of the Thrawn trilogy, which legitimately should have been the sequel trilogy due to what we originally know of Star Wars. You would have gotten thrown, you would have gotten your Sabbath, you would have been introduced to the cloning of a of a Sith user and of a force user.

00:19:20:09 – 00:19:35:20
Joseph
And the complications, you would have gotten all that stuff and it would have logically led to this point. Yeah. And when they acquired the property, they just decided to throw everything out. That was it was Lucas’s stuff and they didn’t want it anymore. Yeah. And that was their dumbest mistake.

00:19:35:21 – 00:19:57:13
Sam
We might talk more that throwing out later, but yeah, that, that whole the initial the months after the acquisition where they just destroying projects of the right is rough. But going back to the EU stuff, it’s like the Marvel Comics, you know, you can, you have a blueprint and it’s not a perfect blueprint. Comics are very weird, but like you have a story that at least most people, not most people, but like people have read and it worked.

00:19:57:19 – 00:20:04:26
Sam
So you can at least pull elements from that. It’s something, it’s a path you could take and it’s three books, so it’s going to be another trilogy right there.

00:20:05:02 – 00:20:32:01
Joseph
And it’s something that people are familiar with. Yeah. So, so they’ve got something to latch onto. Marvel’s more difficult because you have relaunches and storylines multiple times in the comic industry. And what would Marvel tend to do is they pull different pieces, different elements from each of those relaunches and puts them into a cohesive story. So no matter what error you read the comics, you’ll recognize parts of it.

00:20:32:14 – 00:20:47:21
Joseph
And it’s that recognition, not nostalgia so much. It’s that recognition of Oh, I know who that guy is. He was this guy over here, and I wonder where he’s going to wind up in this story. It’s that little click in the brain that makes the Marvel stuff work so well.

00:20:47:26 – 00:21:03:16
Sam
And how they they will subvert that those expectations as well, where like they’ll take if, you know, like everyone, not everyone, but when everyone figured out Thanos was the bad guy, people went and looked up the original Infinity War. Right. But it’s not like that. Like, well, it’s much different.

00:21:03:17 – 00:21:10:00
Joseph
But you’ve had failed along those lines, too. Like the man at the Mandarin Oh yeah. So that didn’t go over quite as well.

00:21:11:00 – 00:21:13:20
Sam
Yeah, they had to go back, and they’ve done that multiple times.

00:21:13:20 – 00:21:15:10
Joseph
They had to clean out of a couple of things.

00:21:15:23 – 00:21:28:13
Sam
But yeah, it’s it’s always like with that you’ve got the blueprint and then they change it up where they need to and, you know, they, they keep what they want, but it’s, they use the comics as at least a jumping off point. Whereas with Star Wars, there seem to be no planning at all.

00:21:28:14 – 00:21:54:09
Joseph
Right. Well, and to complicate things, and this, you know, we go into the next segment here about, you know, Disney learning from their mistakes is while they’re making these, Disney is also in the process of releasing these one off movies and their premise at the time. And they even stated this was they would have a Canon Star Wars saga, a Skywalker saga movie every was three years.

00:21:54:20 – 00:22:27:18
Joseph
And then they’d have a one off movie in between there. And the idea was to keep interest in Star Wars. Well, everyone who’s a Star Wars fan knows that you get a trilogy. There’s three years between each episode and then there’s like 50 years before anything else happens. And that’s kind of the pace that we’ve lived in. Well, you wind up getting the first example of this in Rogue One, a Star Wars story, which in my opinion is one of the best movies in the entire Star Wars franchise.

00:22:27:18 – 00:22:37:19
Sam
Everyone’s pretty good. It’s I mean, it’s it really doubles down on all that nostalgia and like fan service stuff. But it’s fun. And I like that movie and it’s not a mean trilogy. So you can it’s okay for it to be like that.

00:22:37:19 – 00:23:00:29
Joseph
Blood. It’s a movie that didn’t need to be made. It didn’t change the overall narrative. It didn’t change the overall story. Everything else remains it’s a fringe movie that happens to be made that has beautiful artistry to it, beautiful writing. It ties perfectly into what we know in Star Wars. And you get a badass version of Vader out of it.

00:23:01:06 – 00:23:04:18
Sam
Yes. Yeah, that’s true. That probably knocks it up like three points for.

00:23:04:19 – 00:23:14:18
Joseph
Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, two years later, we get Solo, another Star Wars movie that didn’t need to be made, which was terrible.

00:23:14:26 – 00:23:18:04
Sam
I mean, it has good parts, but like overall, it’s it’s pretty it’s not great.

00:23:18:08 – 00:23:42:21
Joseph
It’s again, it’s one that didn’t need to be made. And it goes against the idea. It’s basically what they did with Darth Vader and Boba Fett and all the characters that have these brief moments in Star Wars history. That were bad ass characters because you didn’t know anything about them. Yep. And you didn’t need to know anything about.

00:23:42:21 – 00:23:46:28
Sam
That’s what makes them cool, right? Is that you can say whatever you want in your head about them, right?

00:23:46:28 – 00:24:09:07
Joseph
So no matter what, you’re going to look at Darth Vader. He’s a whiny little, little kid now. Yeah. You’re going to look at Boba Fett. If you watched The Clone Wars and he’s a whiny little kid now that misses his dad, like you ruin these characters by doing this stuff and Luke is trying to ruin. And so already in the digital edition of Star Wars by making Greedo shoot first.

00:24:09:07 – 00:24:18:13
Joseph
Yeah. Okay. So we’re not even going to get into that to be. I will say on that, though, that Han shooting first defined Han’s Carol.

00:24:18:13 – 00:24:20:11
Sam
Yeah, he was like a bad guy, basically.

00:24:20:13 – 00:24:26:13
Joseph
Right, right. He was a murderer. He was that guy on the fringe that was going to play dirty if he had to, to get the job done.

00:24:26:13 – 00:24:31:07
Sam
Which is the whole point of his arc in New Hope is that he learns he comes back for like he helps.

00:24:31:07 – 00:24:33:05
Joseph
It’s a redemption story for Han.

00:24:33:08 – 00:24:41:28
Sam
Which you don’t get in solo also because they give him an arc in that movie where at the end of Solo, he’s a good guy where he shouldn’t be. He should.

00:24:41:29 – 00:24:43:02
Joseph
Like should be a bad guy.

00:24:43:02 – 00:24:47:28
Sam
Which doesn’t make any sense to me because he gets portrayed in that movie by the Love is Love and she is Qi’ra. You’d think that was.

00:24:48:05 – 00:24:48:17
Joseph
To her.

00:24:48:17 – 00:24:59:04
Sam
And his mentor. Yeah, everybody basically. You’d think that would harden him and make him bad. But because it’s a movie, you can’t have an ending with your character being a bad guy, right? I guess. I don’t know. You could have, but they didn’t want to.

00:25:00:13 – 00:25:23:08
Joseph
Yeah. So that was where you kind of you left some head scratching there. And the other problem that happened with Solo was, again, if you were a fan of the expand that universe, there was a, there was a natural story progression of the relationship between Han and Chewy, you know, can’t get this Blaster is another storyline. So you have all these different things that define the Hansel a character over the course of years.

00:25:23:23 – 00:25:27:14
Joseph
And they cram it into this movie where it happens in the course of a couple of days.

00:25:27:14 – 00:25:32:05
Sam
It’s like the ending of Revenge of the Sith, where in the last 10 minutes everything has to get set up for New Hope really fast.

00:25:32:05 – 00:25:41:08
Joseph
Right? Exactly. And it may it just kills the whole premise of what this character has done. So this character has no backstory whatsoever. That didn’t occur in the last three days. Yeah.

00:25:41:09 – 00:25:58:27
Sam
It’s like the opposite of We’ll get into Kenobi at some point. This is probably going to run long, but it is. Kenobi should have been, in my opinion, should have been a movie. The solo movie. Should have been a TV show. Yes. Where it was like serialized you know, it was almost like designed to be a TV show, especially if you’re going to do the first Here’s how Han got his socks.

00:25:58:27 – 00:26:00:04
Sam
Hero Han got his watch.

00:26:00:04 – 00:26:03:03
Joseph
Like exactly exactly.

00:26:03:03 – 00:26:08:01
Sam
Like, Oh, the I never saw it, but I’ve seen clips of it. The old Indiana Jones show or it’s an old Indiana Jones.

00:26:08:01 – 00:26:08:29
Joseph
Indiana Jones, yeah.

00:26:09:02 – 00:26:12:18
Sam
Telling stories about his youth. It could’ve just been that him talking to Kylo or something. I don’t know.

00:26:13:03 – 00:26:16:16
Joseph
Yeah. Yeah, that would work well right before he gets to. Yeah.

00:26:16:27 – 00:26:19:07
Sam
He’s like, Blaine, I have to tell you all these things about my past.

00:26:19:27 – 00:26:31:08
Joseph
Fortunately, after that came out, and it was a I mean, it flopped, right? It that made it was profitable at the box office. So I can’t call it a financial thing.

00:26:31:08 – 00:26:32:04
Sam
I thought it was a financial.

00:26:32:04 – 00:26:38:03
Joseph
Failure now, but from a creative standpoint, it was a terrible failure. I mean, the writing was weak.

00:26:38:07 – 00:26:42:04
Sam
Well, that also that was one of the ones where they had director issues because it was Ron Howard.

00:26:42:04 – 00:26:43:20
Joseph
Swarmed out directors in the middle.

00:26:43:23 – 00:26:45:28
Sam
I think it was the Lego Movie guys. Right. Miller and Lord.

00:26:46:02 – 00:27:08:09
Joseph
Might have been forget who the original and. Well, yeah, it also didn’t help that they cast someone that looked nothing like Harrison Ford sounded anything like Harrison Ford walked looked like he had no resemblance to the character in something like almost deliberately Lee pick somebody that didn’t fit the part so bad as almost like a slap in the face to the fans.

00:27:08:09 – 00:27:24:05
Sam
Yeah. I mean, I don’t I’m kind of I don’t know where I come down on that because I don’t want I’m okay with act like people performing it in their own way. But if you’re doing a prequel story, they should at least, like pretend like they’re that person eventually or where you can see those elements of where they will get to that point.

00:27:24:13 – 00:27:26:23
Sam
Like Donald Glover was good as, my God.

00:27:26:23 – 00:27:28:18
Joseph
He was the highlight of the entire movie.

00:27:28:18 – 00:27:31:00
Sam
But he was pretty clearly just doing a Billy Dee impersonation.

00:27:31:05 – 00:27:44:29
Joseph
He was. So but that’s the problem. You’re playing an existing character. Like if you get a chance to play George Washington in a movie, you damn well better look and sound like George Washington. That’s okay. Guess otherwise. It’s called Hamilton Drunk, Drew.

00:27:45:24 – 00:27:48:00
Sam
But I think we’re getting a Lando show eventually, right?

00:27:48:00 – 00:28:12:27
Joseph
We probably are. We’ll talk about that. But anyway, so they learned their lesson here. They banked off in the movies. Disney Plus came out and they moved into streaming. So the what they encounter was with some Disney fatigue thing, kind of from Star Wars fatigue, which I think Disney was surprised at because they kind of went down that same path with Star Wars they did.

00:28:12:27 – 00:28:21:09
Joseph
But Marvel and the fans of everything, Marvel, that came out and they loved it. And I think it backfired on Star Wars. What do you think?

00:28:21:17 – 00:28:38:22
Sam
Yeah, I mean, it sure seems that way. I certainly feel the fatigue, but I think the reason that happens is because at a certain point, there’s only so many stories you can tell in the Star Wars universe, right? Especially when you limit yourselves like they constantly do with all these movies and TV shows where they they very rarely try something different, something that breaks the mold.

00:28:39:01 – 00:28:53:29
Sam
And I think that that kind of makes it limits the amount of things you can do. And I think that’s where a lot of the fatigue come from, where like with Marvel, you get a Ragnarok, a Thor Ragnarok, you’ll get a A Guardians movies that do things that are kind of weird and out there because they’re allowed to be.

00:28:53:29 – 00:29:06:18
Sam
But like there’s really nothing like that with Star Wars. Maybe we’ll get the Taika Waititi is making a show. We’ll get something like that. Maybe. But I think if you look at the the broad, you know, selection of what we have, the view of Star Wars, it’s all pretty similar.

00:29:07:14 – 00:29:26:22
Joseph
And I agree with you on 2% there. I think with Marvel, you can get away with that because Marvel, let’s face it, Marvel combined several different properties that no one ever thought they’d be able to combine genres. Yeah. Well, when when Guardians of the Galaxy came out and we were told that they’re going to merge in with Avengers, I’m like, How are you going to do that?

00:29:26:22 – 00:29:52:02
Joseph
Right. One’s almost an adult version. Of Marvel merging it with the kid. Very like none of that’s going to work. And they wound up making it work. You brought in Brilliant out of the box thinkers like Taika Waititi, who I love everything that he does, and he comes in and gives us a comedy that fits in everything that’s like a flash from the 1970s with, with everything that he does.

00:29:52:18 – 00:30:04:13
Joseph
So you could get away with that. And I think Disney found out that the Star Wars fans are too rigid for that. There are two worlds for what the nostalgia of it is, and they’re big on the nostalgia.

00:30:04:17 – 00:30:27:17
Sam
Yeah, I think that’s part of the problem. And I try to break myself of that because like with Marvel, it’s like if you want a spy story, you can go watch Winter Soldier. If you want a Western, there’s I blanked on one, but you know what I mean? There’s there’s a genre for a movie for everything. And I think if they did that would Star Wars, it’d be a lot more successful and a lot more at least creatively interesting to watch because because you can do those things with Star Wars.

00:30:27:17 – 00:30:46:06
Sam
I mean, we see Mando in book of Boba Fett. They love the Western trope. They get into that, but you can make it work in other genres. I’ve only wants a handful of episodes. The Visions, the animated show that where they did a bunch of short stories. But that was another example of where you could have done all these different genre type stories in Star Wars.

00:30:46:06 – 00:31:11:11
Sam
Make a noir Mayko, make a war movie, which you got a little bit of a war movie and solo for like 15 minutes. But the point is you don’t have to be creatively, you know, out of ideas because you limit yourself based on your nostalgia you can do all these other stories in Star Wars if you just do it right and make new characters and make new settings and, you know, kind of blaze a new path that isn’t so rigid and, you know, stuck to itself.

00:31:11:22 – 00:31:33:26
Joseph
And ultimately, I think the problem boils down to the fact that Disney did not know the fan base of Star Wars. And I think they’re just finally starting to learn that because you’re starting to see things that are different, but they’re not dramatically different, nor are they canonically impacting on the overall story, which is where visions comes in.

00:31:33:26 – 00:31:55:09
Joseph
And visions every with the exception I think two or three of the other episodes of it, every episode of it is different. It’s a different style, it’s a different story, it’s a different impact, it’s a different time. Period. And they do a really good job of that. And the fans accepted it because it’s a little bit at a time, little bit of time.

00:31:55:09 – 00:32:05:02
Joseph
You can’t just come in and and throw a Thor Ragnarok in there because the Star Wars fans just aren’t going to accept it. Yeah. So you kind of have to lead them down that path.

00:32:05:02 – 00:32:23:24
Sam
And going back to what I was saying about doing different genre type stories in Star Wars, that’s one of the reasons I like The Clone Wars show so much. The the animated one, not the Gandhi Tarkovsky one, because they did that in that show constantly. They would take, you know, an arc. They take three or four episodes and make like a murder mystery, or they’d make like a Western or they’d make a, you know.

00:32:23:24 – 00:32:26:10
Joseph
Ah, they did a horror series with it.

00:32:26:10 – 00:32:47:11
Sam
Yeah. And it really showed that Star Wars doesn’t have to be the same thing all the time. You can take these tropes. And I mean, really, the original trilogy, at least New Hope was like that, too. You know, Lucas being inspired by Kurosawa and things like that. It was all and Campbell’s Hero’s Journey thing, The Circle, like it’s all just taking big ideas, stories and putting them in a sci fi fantasy setting.

00:32:47:11 – 00:32:51:02
Sam
And you can do that more if you don’t limit yourself as much.

00:32:51:05 – 00:33:26:00
Joseph
I agree. And I think Disney is finally getting to the point where they’re hitting their stride and they’re learning how to do that. Yeah, yeah. So want to take a quick break. We’ll be right back. And we’re going to talk about the current state of Star Wars. We right back for over seven years, the second Sith Empire has been the Premiere Community Guild in the online game Star Wars The Old Republic, with hundreds of friendly and helpful active members.

00:33:26:20 – 00:33:57:05
Joseph
A weekly schedule of nightly events annual guild meet and greets in the community, both on the Web and on discord. The second season of Empire is more than your typical gaming group. We’re Family. Join us on the Star Forge server for nightly events such as operations Flashpoints, World Boss Funds, the Star Wars Trivia Guild Lottery and much more.

00:33:58:18 – 00:34:30:28
Joseph
Visit us on the Web today. And w w w dot the second sip and fire dot com uh. Help me. Obi-Wan Kenobi. That’s our subject today. We’re going to talk a little bit more about the current state of Star Wars. So the properties that we have available right now, and I’ll run down the list real quick that are currently active we have Mandalorian, which is filming season three.

00:34:30:28 – 00:34:41:14
Joseph
We have Bad Batch, which is in post-production for season two. We have the book of Everyone Bubble. I mean the book of Boba Fett, which has finished its limited run. They’re making.

00:34:41:14 – 00:34:41:28
Sam
More that.

00:34:42:07 – 00:34:44:22
Joseph
No. Oh, okay, good. It’s finished its limited run.

00:34:44:22 – 00:34:48:08
Sam
I know, but it’s the ongoing section. I thought I made miss some announce its parent.

00:34:48:08 – 00:35:05:14
Joseph
We also have Obi-Wan that finished. It’s 12. So that’s what we have available to us to watch right now. Plus all the other stuff that came out. Where do we stand with, with Mandalorian? What do you, what do you think of it now? We’re going into our third season here. Is it still worth watching?

00:35:05:20 – 00:35:24:02
Sam
Absolutely. I’d argue to say it might be the only thing worth watching. That’s that’s probably and I was going to say this conclusion for the end of the show, but it’s probably the only thing I’m going to be watching going here on out. I just I’m I can’t do it anymore, but I like the Mandalorian, I think season one and two, while they have their flaws and they have their problems, I think by season two especially, they really figured it out.

00:35:24:27 – 00:35:44:05
Sam
Some say they go a little heavy with the cameos from other shows and things like that. But I think at its core, Gen Dejan, Din Dejan, whatever his name is, the Mandalorian, Jared yes, I think I think that character is great. And I think that it’s really something positive that come out of this new era of Star Wars.

00:35:44:17 – 00:35:59:20
Sam
Grogu, who I can take it or leave it. I’m not a big grow guy. I know people are, but it’s fine. And I think that that crew, that cast of characters that they’ve got in there, whoever’s left, I know some people got booted for having bad beliefs in real life, but they’ve done a good job crafting that universe.

00:35:59:20 – 00:36:03:01
Sam
And I think that that show going forward, I think it could only go up, really.

00:36:03:09 – 00:36:33:25
Joseph
And I agree. I think it’s probably the highlight. It has really invigorated people’s interest in Star Wars. They’ve used it as a springboard to basically create multiple spin offs from. Um, I was disappointed at what everyone describes as is season 2.5 of the Mandalorian, which was the tail end of oh yeah. Boba Fett, bigger Boba Fett, where we thought, you know, the whole storyline with baby Yoda, Grogu was gone and now he’s back in the picture.

00:36:33:25 – 00:36:45:27
Joseph
And I think that’s a mistake because I think continued emphasis, even though everyone loves the cute little baby Yoda, I think continued emphasis on that character is going to be a drain on any storyline that’s that’s out there.

00:36:45:27 – 00:36:48:18
Sam
I always knew baby Yoda was going to come back. I did think we.

00:36:48:20 – 00:36:50:23
Joseph
Get do it because he makes so much money for.

00:36:50:23 – 00:36:56:02
Sam
Exactly. If you want to look at it cynically, yes, you can. I’m sure you can look around this room and see Vivian emerge somewhere or.

00:36:56:02 – 00:36:57:08
Joseph
Something behind you. Yeah.

00:36:57:29 – 00:37:06:06
Sam
He makes way too much money and he is way too marketable. They’re never going to be rid of him. However, I thought we’d at least get I wasn’t expecting 2.5 and Book of Boba Fett, that kind of.

00:37:06:06 – 00:37:07:04
Joseph
I wasn’t either.

00:37:07:05 – 00:37:17:11
Sam
That was, like, wild, but I thought we’d maybe get, like, half a season Amanda without him. And then, you know, maybe he has, like, some other adventure with something else, and then he comes back. But now he’s back right away.

00:37:17:12 – 00:37:20:04
Joseph
Yep. Right off the bat. And I think that’s a mistake, unfortunately.

00:37:20:09 – 00:37:23:25
Sam
Yeah, it’s going to. What are you going to do? You already did. You concluded that whole arc.

00:37:24:00 – 00:37:24:11
Joseph
Yeah.

00:37:24:20 – 00:37:30:09
Sam
I guess it would be. Now it’s it’s the Mandalorian reclaiming his Mandalorian this. Right?

00:37:30:27 – 00:37:33:13
Joseph
That all sounds crazy. Goes.

00:37:33:15 – 00:37:37:26
Sam
Oh, no. Because like, I didn’t in that episode of Boba Fett, he gets kicked out, right?

00:37:37:26 – 00:37:39:00
Joseph
He gets kicked out by the.

00:37:39:00 – 00:37:41:04
Sam
Other two leaving Mandalorians that are left.

00:37:41:10 – 00:37:47:06
Joseph
Right. Well, and they’re not the only living Mandalorian. They’re the one living ones from the death watch.

00:37:47:10 – 00:37:52:17
Sam
But I’m hoping we get because we already had what’s her name? Bo-katan. Right.

00:37:52:17 – 00:37:54:17
Joseph
So she’s obviously going to be back.

00:37:54:22 – 00:37:58:08
Sam
So yeah, I’m hoping I like the Mandalorian stuff in general, like the and it’s a.

00:37:58:08 – 00:38:06:28
Joseph
Great, it’s a great and everyone loves Mandalorian. That’s the thing. It’s that they’re like the Klingons in some Star Wars. Everyone just loves our rich, their heritages.

00:38:06:28 – 00:38:22:22
Sam
Yes. I’m hoping we get more of that. I’d much prefer it as, uh, now, especially with the Mandalorian, because I like the characters. I prefer it much more when it’s every episode is connected to the overall plot. I’m not big on like the whole serialized thing, which you kind of got more and that was more season one or season one.

00:38:22:24 – 00:38:23:06
Joseph
Yeah.

00:38:23:13 – 00:38:33:03
Sam
But when they started moving to season two, where things were more connected and told one long story, I much prefer that, and I hope that they stick with that. And there’s not as much, you know, one off episodes unless they’re, you know, interesting.

00:38:33:09 – 00:38:56:21
Joseph
Well, the only concern that I have in the direction that they’re going is they’re probably going to have to lend some support, some tertiary support to some of the other shows. So we already know they’re feeding into the Asoka series, right? So they’re doing the, the whole Roku cloning Admiral Thrawn type stuff. So they’re already feeding into that.

00:38:57:06 – 00:39:15:09
Joseph
I don’t know what else will be feeding into, but because it originated with Mandalorian, it’s they’re almost like Iron Man. Yeah, it’s what the whole Disney Plus stuff is circulating around right now. So you’re probably still going to have some drain on resources for that.

00:39:15:17 – 00:39:25:20
Sam
I mean, yeah, that’s how all these shows work. It’s, it’s, we’re going to name the show after a character, but then we’re going to introduce a bunch of other characters along the way and give them time so that they can have their own show, so that we can keep bringing people along.

00:39:25:20 – 00:39:38:11
Joseph
Right. And that’s, that’s good business. What about bad batch what’s your thoughts? And then who’s the character? The young one, their record Omega. Oh, me, I think to say. Yeah, Omega.

00:39:39:02 – 00:39:50:02
Sam
I like bad batch a lot. It was way too long. I can’t believe it was like a full season of Clone Wars, but it was like 23 episodes. That was ridiculous. However, if we can keep making and they’re doing that with.

00:39:50:18 – 00:39:57:24
Joseph
You know, you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel when you got the kid in there scamming card games, you put that in is an episode I I.

00:39:58:13 – 00:40:16:13
Sam
They should have taken the approach of the Clone Wars final season where it was short. I’m a big advocate of everything, should be short, but I really like the Clone Wars animation. I’ve come to really like it and especially with that final season, The Clone Wars, they’ve really stepped up the budget and it looks like incredible. Yeah. And I like keeping in that universe with the clones.

00:40:16:13 – 00:40:36:26
Sam
I always think that those are some of the best stories coming out of Clone Wars, and I just like that style of show. Continuing that being said, like I said, it was way too long, had, you know, a lot of episodes that you could have just not had in the show and had a similar thing, like with Mando, where it was kind of it became a cameo of the week show at a certain point, but unfortunate.

00:40:36:26 – 00:40:40:17
Sam
I just think that’s all the Star Wars shows at this point so that we can get people to stay interested.

00:40:40:19 – 00:40:43:06
Joseph
Right. And sell shows. You’re going to sell merchandise.

00:40:43:18 – 00:40:54:17
Sam
But I’m looking forward to the new season of it. And yeah, I just I just really like that, that not a genre, but, you know, those types of shows. And when we’re getting more of that with what’s it called, Tales of the Jedi, Tales of the Jedi, as I think.

00:40:54:28 – 00:41:16:13
Joseph
The one thing that I did like about it is the fact that Clone Wars always showed you Star Wars from a different perspective. It wasn’t from a lead character perspective. It was from the guys down the bottom. A bad batch does that, but it does that at a critical period of time. Seeing order. 66 from their perspective was awesome.

00:41:17:00 – 00:41:26:00
Joseph
Seeing how people react to imperial troops. Now you get a whole different perspective on what that period of time is like.

00:41:26:02 – 00:41:30:25
Sam
It’s one of the most interesting period in Star Wars, too, seeing that transition from the republic to that empire.

00:41:30:25 – 00:41:48:26
Joseph
Absolutely. And you never get a chance to see that anywhere else. This is the first time you got to see that. You got to see, you know, little bits of it here and there with, you know, a new hope. But like Fallen Order, you had no interaction. But again, video games, I don’t want to stay away from the video games because it’s a small segment of the population.

00:41:49:27 – 00:42:02:09
Joseph
This opens it up to more people and this adds more character, more color and more grit to that time period. And it’s going to support everything moving forward, which is what I like about it. Yeah, definitely book about what are your thoughts on it.

00:42:03:11 – 00:42:19:10
Sam
So it’s such a disappointment it really was. And it was one of those shows that put another coffin in the nail of me. Stop watching these shows because it was just it felt like such a waste of time. I think it was. It it was structured poorly. I really don’t know what they were doing with it. It seems like they didn’t really either.

00:42:19:15 – 00:42:29:00
Sam
It seemed like the whole thing was just to kind of get to the Mandalorian stuff at the end. I really don’t know what else to say about it. It just you can definitely skip it because Boba Fett doesn’t really do anything.

00:42:29:21 – 00:42:39:03
Joseph
Yeah. And like the first four episodes are nothing but flashbacks of how he survives the Sarlacc, which once he shows up, Amanda, you kind of have to answer that question.

00:42:41:13 – 00:43:09:25
Joseph
How he forgot that he left his armor there when he got out. I don’t understand that. There was a lot of inconsistencies in it, but you’re right, it’s a it’s a series that did not need to be created. Why? Boba Fett, a bounty hunter, would want to be a crime lord on Tatooine. Still don’t understand the concept behind that, why he aligned himself with a gang of teenagers who rode really flashy motorcycle bikes.

00:43:09:26 – 00:43:11:07
Joseph
I don’t understand that either.

00:43:11:08 – 00:43:22:09
Sam
Like, and you say it’s a show that doesn’t need to exist, but it also didn’t justify its own existence. That’s the thing. You can have things that don’t need to exist but are still fun to watch. But with Boba Fett, it didn’t need to exist and you didn’t need to watch it.

00:43:22:19 – 00:43:34:01
Joseph
No, you’re right. And I think you hit the nail on the head that the only reason they exist, it was to give you Mandalorian season 2.5, which we could have all waited for that to be, you know, an episode or two in season three.

00:43:34:01 – 00:43:50:08
Sam
Yeah, we’ve talked about this off the air before, but it should have been the reverse, where it’s a season of Mandalorian with a Boba Fett episode sure. Not a season of a Boba Fett show or the Mandalorian episode, because you easily could have you. I mean, let’s be real. You could have crammed this whole book about video in one episode or two of a Mandalorian season.

00:43:50:14 – 00:43:59:02
Sam
And, you know, you could have, you know, where’s Boba Fett now? Because, you know, he was a character in the show basically. Right. And I wouldn’t be surprised if we do get that in the new Mandalorian season where we get more on Boba.

00:43:59:06 – 00:44:15:12
Joseph
Well, the the ultimate from what I have is everybody from Boba, from Mandalorians getting their own their own series. It’s like even the bartender at that. But nowhere you know, town that they’ve had. Cobb Vanth is getting his own series. I’m surprised Convinced doesn’t have his own series yet. It’s like.

00:44:15:19 – 00:44:16:22
Sam
Well, he’s to he’s a robot.

00:44:16:22 – 00:44:34:14
Joseph
Now, but it’s like they’re telegraphing it at this point in time. It’s like back in the 1980s when you had all these spinoffs of these original shows, it’s like it’s, it’s too much like if you want to come up with additional shows because you need to fill air time on Disney, right? Come up with something original.

00:44:34:29 – 00:44:42:07
Sam
Well, it’s funny you call it air time because that is what it feels like. It feels like they’re like, it’s like cable TV and they have to fill those airtime when in reality they could put on their whatever they want.

00:44:42:27 – 00:44:51:14
Joseph
Well, they’re trying to get people to maintain their subscriptions to it and they think content is king. You got to throw content out there whether it’s good or not, so that people can consume something.

00:44:51:14 – 00:45:04:22
Sam
And that’s kind of why I’ve fallen off. I just can’t do it anymore. It’s just none of this feel. It’s all and you know, you you don’t want to limit yourself to a numbering system, but for the sake of this, I’m going to do everything. Feels like a six or seven out of ten. None of this feels like as much must watch TV.

00:45:04:28 – 00:45:19:12
Sam
Nothing’s really doing anything different. It’s all just very middle of the road. And it’s just it all just feels like it’s stringing me along as a viewer. And I’m Marvel is doing that, too, by the way. I don’t think I mentioned that on the air, but I’ve stopped watching the Marvel shows, and I’m probably going to start watching the Star Wars shows, except for Mandalorian.

00:45:20:02 – 00:45:38:04
Joseph
And I think you’re right. And I think it’s a it’s a race to mediocrity at this point. And I don’t think I think it’s our fault as a consumer because the more and it’s always been this way, if you look at TV and radio, where the more crap they put out there, the more we want to consume it.

00:45:38:23 – 00:45:50:24
Joseph
And now they can tie direct numbers to it because they’ve got subscriber numbers. We’re paying for this crap. Now, it’s not just that we’re sitting there watching advertisements and we’re paying them to put this stuff out there. Yeah.

00:45:50:29 – 00:46:02:04
Sam
And that was kind of the conclusion I came to is that I’m part of the problem. But by watching all these shows and by paying for Disney, plus I am contributing to the thing that I hate. And so I’ve decided to try to remove myself from the equation.

00:46:03:07 – 00:46:19:28
Joseph
So finally, in this segment, let’s have our discussion about Obi-Wan, the series. This is what this all triggered, this whole idea of this podcast. Give me your thoughts and then you and I can argue well.

00:46:20:09 – 00:46:39:22
Sam
I liked it. I do think it I don’t think needed to be a show. I just say that I think could have been a two and a half hour long movie, but they couldn’t have gotten six weeks of programing out of it if they didn’t do that. I think the first two episodes started off very strong. I think a lot of the Obi-Wan stuff, with a few exceptions, was pretty good.

00:46:40:04 – 00:46:56:00
Sam
But I think when you get into everything else in the show, it all felt like extra fluff that didn’t really need to be there. The character of Reva, I didn’t really like it first. By the end, I kind of was a little bit higher on her when she started showing more emotional rather than just being angry. And the twist of her hunting Vader was good.

00:46:56:29 – 00:47:19:24
Sam
All the Vader stuff I thought did pretty good job. You get to see Vader be a crazy murderer, which everybody loves. You get a lot of good Vader moments in that. I think there’s some parts that don’t really help at all. Like all the stuff with the Grand Inquisitor that didn’t need to be in there. A lot of the stuff with a lot of the other rebels he meets really didn’t need to be in there unless they show up in that Rangers of the Republic show that’s coming out, which is what it felt like.

00:47:19:24 – 00:47:20:28
Sam
It felt like an ad for that show.

00:47:21:16 – 00:47:23:03
Joseph
Going to show up on Endor probably to.

00:47:23:10 – 00:47:38:24
Sam
Oh, yeah. That too. Yeah. But oh, a Little League was great. I thought that that was a great twist that I didn’t see coming. That was really well done and consistently paid off throughout the show. But yeah, I definitely think it could have just been a movie and it would have had more impact if it was a movie.

00:47:39:02 – 00:47:58:04
Joseph
Oh, you know, I don’t disagree with anything what you said. I was happy that the whole damn thing didn’t happen on top of me. Like everything else in the Star Wars universe, you still I would suggest the next time they decide to have a light saber fight, you need to have more leaning than just the two light sabers because you couldn’t see shit during the fight.

00:47:58:27 – 00:48:20:16
Joseph
That was a problem. And that recreating the a soldier fight between Vader and a soldier from Clone Wars probably or from Rebels probably wasn’t necessary because you already saw that fight once, and it was almost an identical walk for walk through that fight. So that was kind of disappointing. How do you leave Reva alive?

00:48:21:22 – 00:48:22:24
Sam
She’s redeemed. It’s fine.

00:48:23:14 – 00:48:24:12
Joseph
She really.

00:48:24:12 – 00:48:30:00
Sam
I thought she was going to offer herself. I don’t know, like, I don’t know what our censorship is like on this show, but I thought she was going to analyze herself.

00:48:30:22 – 00:48:41:25
Joseph
I, I don’t know how as Obi-Wan one, you could let somebody who was in a grand inquisitor who now knows about Luke and Leia. Yeah.

00:48:42:00 – 00:48:49:01
Sam
Lives well, because she has to have her own show. This is the reason to let Vader live. Because he had to. Because that’s what the writing dictated.

00:48:49:29 – 00:49:04:18
Joseph
From a canonical timeline, you kind of had a let of, well, how do you walk away from that? Like, you literally have a chance right there. You thought you killed them before and you walked away, and he was still breathing. He thought he was going to die. How do you walk away from me again after doing that?

00:49:04:18 – 00:49:18:10
Sam
I was I was telling a friend of mine we were talking about and I was like big Batman energy with this. We’re like, he has him dead the right and he just let them live, even though he knows that he’s going to go on to kill thousands of people. And it’s like, yeah, but like, did we know this going into the show?

00:49:18:10 – 00:49:32:12
Sam
Right. When we when they confirmed Vader was going to be in it and they confirmed they were going to fight, we all knew it was going to end. No, neither of them are going to die. That’s what happens when you milk every, like, moment of this timeline, but you already know the end. In the beginning, these things are inevitable.

00:49:32:12 – 00:49:39:18
Sam
I think if anything, they should have done it. Remember, Force Awakens and Brand Kylo Fight and then an earthquake happened and I split apart something like that, like so well.

00:49:39:18 – 00:50:01:29
Joseph
And it’s funny you mention that because I was having a conversation with a colleague at work and we said, Okay, so we know there’s two battles we know that everyone is going to at least win the last one because you have to in order to fit the line from a new hope of when last we met, you were the master.

00:50:03:11 – 00:50:35:24
Joseph
So we now know that he had to win that last fight. But everybody else besides Vader thought that Obi-Wan was dead. Even Tarkin says, oh, he’s, you know, he’s long dead. Right? And so the way the battle should have ended was Vader lost but somehow came up with a way to conceivably explain how how Obi-Wan dies. And he basically lies and says, Oh, I kill.

00:50:35:26 – 00:50:50:23
Joseph
He kicked my ass, but I killed him. And he’s gone now, knowing that he’s alive himself. But everyone else thinks he’s dead. That’s what should have happened in the Kylo Ren thing with the Earth he would have been a great way to do that. Yeah, I thought that’s what they were going to do when they dropped him in the pit.

00:50:50:23 – 00:50:52:04
Joseph
The rock on top of. Yep.

00:50:53:23 – 00:51:00:07
Sam
They could have even done that because you get the Ian McDermott cameo, which is great. He’s always great. Not necessary, but great.

00:51:00:07 – 00:51:01:27
Joseph
Now, I didn’t do anything for the show.

00:51:01:27 – 00:51:17:01
Sam
But you could have had that moment where because basically putting your shows up and goes, you mad? You look a little mad. But he could have said, like, that’s where you could have the moment. You’re talking about where he lives and says, I got him, he’s dead, you know, because then, you know, he’s lying. To the emperor. He’s like, That.

00:51:17:01 – 00:51:28:23
Joseph
Would have set it up perfectly. Yep. That’s that would have made so much more sense. Yep. But instead of on Obi-Wan, just he left him in a broken mask. And left. Now, it makes no sense that you would just walk away.

00:51:28:24 – 00:51:43:18
Sam
I know. And that’s what happens when you limit yourself and you make a prequel because they love prequels. And like, when you when you do these things and you you tie yourself down to these conclusions that you can’t get out of, right? I mean, there’s no way to get out of this.

00:51:44:28 – 00:51:47:14
Joseph
But you’re right. You’re right. You’re going to have to talk your way around it.

00:51:47:14 – 00:51:52:23
Sam
But the question is, is this show must see Star Wars? I would say it is because I like Obi-Wan.

00:51:53:06 – 00:52:00:15
Joseph
And I would say it is because I like Darth Vader. Yeah. Just for the fight alone and seeing Darth Vader’s power. Yeah, I would say it is.

00:52:00:26 – 00:52:06:10
Sam
Yeah. I really he has a good fight with Reva, too. That was fun. I wish we would have gotten a little bit more.

00:52:06:11 – 00:52:10:28
Joseph
Yeah, to fight the saber in this fight with Reva was awesome. Yeah.

00:52:11:15 – 00:52:13:06
Sam
A little bit more Vader character stuff.

00:52:13:19 – 00:52:22:17
Joseph
Well, my question to you is, are we going to get a Vader series out of this? God, I hope not, because it’s Hayden version in the head suggested he’s.

00:52:22:17 – 00:52:24:23
Sam
Got nothing going on don’t. And he’s.

00:52:24:23 – 00:52:25:08
Joseph
Available.

00:52:25:16 – 00:52:28:04
Sam
Yeah, I know he’s available, but, like.

00:52:28:16 – 00:52:38:15
Joseph
But that’s the moneymaker. That’s that’s growing. You know, you could. You could make a series of Darth Vader going to the bathroom, and people would watch it. And Vader watch.

00:52:38:16 – 00:52:45:18
Sam
If they’re going to do a Vader show, they should just do the Vader comics, because those, like, make him a real human being where, like, when Palpatine do.

00:52:45:19 – 00:52:47:29
Joseph
But I don’t want to get Dr. AFRA in.

00:52:47:29 – 00:52:55:29
Sam
A lot of I don’t I’m not thought about that. Like, when Palpatine stranded on the planet or, like, with nothing and, like, he has to fight Tarkin and stuff like that. Like, all the little one of things.

00:52:56:00 – 00:53:01:15
Joseph
I could see that, but like, they did the Sith Lord book that would make a great series that you could do. Yeah.

00:53:01:16 – 00:53:18:06
Sam
Because the problem is like, at least in the movies and TV, because that’s the only thing I’ve seen because I don’t really I’ve only seen I read some of the comics, but like, Vader is just like a crazy bad guy at this point. He’s just like a mass murderer. And that’s hard to make a main character of your show because he’s just, like, murdering people all the time.

00:53:18:06 – 00:53:28:15
Sam
Like, what are you going to do with them? Like in the comics, you get more of his depth. We’re like, Sure, he has his own motivations, and he’s he’s overcoming his own insecurities and things like that. To become the Vader I see in New Hope, you.

00:53:28:15 – 00:53:31:25
Joseph
Get much more depth. Character development. Yeah, in the written.

00:53:31:27 – 00:53:41:20
Sam
But even in Obi one, he’s basically just a crazy murderer the whole time, except for a few moments where we see Anakin come through. But even then, he double down, doubles down.

00:53:41:26 – 00:53:43:12
Joseph
That was very well done, by the way.

00:53:43:20 – 00:53:45:00
Sam
The cutting between the voice and.

00:53:45:01 – 00:53:47:16
Joseph
The voices are of back and forth. That was really robust.

00:53:47:19 – 00:54:02:06
Sam
And I like I, I, we talked about this before we came on, but there was a there’s a lot of great lines in the finale that I really, really liked. I like how he calls them Darth. Obi-Wan calls them Darth before he leaves. Like he says, only master of Evil Darth in New Hope. So it’s like he’s finally cooked in the attic dead.

00:54:02:23 – 00:54:05:02
Sam
But even then, it’s like, come on. Just to stab him, you know?

00:54:05:11 – 00:54:16:18
Joseph
Yeah, like, at least Adam and walk away and have him survive it because, you know, he established a grand inquisitor, survived right. So that would have been a great way to think he killed them again.

00:54:17:01 – 00:54:19:17
Sam
Yeah. I mean, he could even cut him in half. You could do pretty much anything.

00:54:19:17 – 00:54:24:02
Joseph
You could cut him in because he’s done that before. And the guy survived you and threw him down a bit.

00:54:24:05 – 00:54:34:11
Sam
So that would have been even because I don’t know, I’m not familiar. I haven’t seen a new hope in a while. There’s Obi-Wan. No, Vader’s alive. And, like, is Anakin in New Hope? Like, does he know him?

00:54:34:11 – 00:54:34:21
Joseph
Yeah.

00:54:34:29 – 00:54:38:12
Sam
Okay. Well, because I was going to say it would have been interesting if he killed me, and I.

00:54:38:14 – 00:54:40:20
Joseph
Luke confronts him. We’re after he told.

00:54:41:02 – 00:54:41:11
Sam
Okay.

00:54:41:11 – 00:54:53:28
Joseph
Yeah, Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father. That’s where they get the line from. You know, Anakin Skywalker is dead. I killed him. Oh, that’s a great way to explain that to your son in ten years. All right, thanks for that. Yeah.

00:54:54:25 – 00:55:20:01
Sam
I was going to say, he could have thought he legitimately thought he killed Vader, only to have him reappear later, but that probably wouldn’t work. I don’t know, I. I still think that shows worth watching. Uh, you know, there’s there’s definitely a lot of parts in it that didn’t need to be in there, but I think, especially if you’re a fan of the prequels and if you’re a Vader fan, you basically get the payoff for Obi-Wan because, like, he shows up in Rebels as, like, old man Ben and does some stuff, but, like, not it’s not like, character development.

00:55:20:01 – 00:55:31:00
Sam
He’s kind of just they’re right. But if you want the conclusion to, especially coming off of Revenge of the Sith, because they really like pain of that a lot, I think it’s worth watching just for that I agree.

00:55:31:01 – 00:55:38:14
Joseph
It’s it’s definitely worth the cinematics, I think are worth watching are the stories. Oh, I do.

00:55:38:14 – 00:55:58:00
Sam
Critical. I do want to mention that we are starting to see the limit of this LED war that they shoot everything on because everything looks flat. And you can see that in the Thor trailer, too. There’s some shots in them that looked flat and you can really see it in this Obi-Wan show when they’re on that rock planet, you can tell that it’s like where they are is real, but everything else around them is very flat.

00:55:58:00 – 00:56:09:26
Sam
And that’s kind of the downfall of I forget what it’s called, the volume. Yeah, that’s kind of the downfall of that tech. And I get it. It’s Star Wars. The prequels were pushing the limits of what tech could do, and we’re kind of doing that again. But like, I think.

00:56:10:08 – 00:56:38:27
Joseph
What was funny was and they I don’t know if you watch a documentary behind the scenes stuff around, they talk about the volume and the purpose of the volume wasn’t to create the dynamic backgrounds, it was create the lighting from the backgrounds. And then they were going to digitally overwrite the background okay. Like a greenscreen. Yeah, but at least now you’ve got those real is that sun beating down or the fire coming up from the from the lava river from the finale of season one.

00:56:39:06 – 00:57:01:07
Joseph
You have that effect and you have something for the actors to react against. Even Sara, whether says they’re in this boat on this main floor with everything going on and the scene is passing by, he said he was getting motion sick. He wasn’t moving what was getting motion sickness. So it was it was a tool for the actors and for the visual effects guys.

00:57:01:25 – 00:57:16:04
Joseph
But it looks so good for what they were doing. They left it in so many of the shots. The one thing to take note, though, is you’ve got a couple of and we’re not going to go into this this segment here because it’s we’re up against the clock down. But I just want to touch a couple of things.

00:57:17:03 – 00:57:47:13
Joseph
You got andor coming out and endorse not using the vine or your is using all practical effects. They’re building your sets. They’re building their props. They’re doing everything like a traditional movie. And it was very similar to what they did with the TV series of Halo. And you can tell the difference. Yep. When you open a door and it’s a it’s a door, it’s not a panel with green on it, but they over print digital stuff on it looks and then and acts like it’s real.

00:57:47:13 – 00:57:57:06
Sam
Yeah that’s good because I’m definitely like, I mean I brought it up but I’m feeling the limits of this volume technology and I’m hoping they don’t because it makes everything feel flat. But like end of the day, that kind of just what it does.

00:57:57:06 – 00:58:14:18
Joseph
And when you’re doing outdoor panoramic shots like that, it doesn’t always work. Yeah. Where it works is when you’re enclosed somewhere and you don’t need that depth. But when you’re looking at a shot in a desert and you’ve got rocks in the foreground and rocks out medium and rocks up, you do you lose that depth, that perception of depth.

00:58:14:22 – 00:58:23:07
Sam
So I’m hoping that either, you know, they kind of work out on that or I didn’t realize and was being shot all practically double down on that practically is almost always better in my opinion.

00:58:23:08 – 00:58:24:20
Joseph
It is, but it cost a fortune.

00:58:24:21 – 00:58:28:08
Sam
True. True. Yeah. Just raise the price of Disney plus there.

00:58:28:09 – 00:58:41:21
Joseph
Yeah. So yeah, we’re at the one hour mark and in this last section was actually going to this section so I think we’re going to hold off on that for another episode to where we can do a part two of Help Me Everyone.

00:58:42:02 – 00:58:43:12
Sam
Is I mean, I have to watch and or.

00:58:46:09 – 00:58:57:06
Joseph
Not if we do it quick and we do it the next week or two, you should be okay. So we’ll come back and we’ll talk about the future Star Wars and another episode Any closing thoughts before we go? You.

00:58:58:07 – 00:59:14:07
Sam
No, I pretty much said everything. You know, I think I, I think after Obi-Wan because I think if they didn’t get above a seven out of ten with Obi-Wan, I don’t think anything’s going to. So I think I’m going to Bale. I’ve already bailed on Marvel shows. I think I’m going to bail on, on Star Wars shows. Except for Mandalorian.

00:59:14:07 – 00:59:15:09
Sam
I’ll come back from and Lauren.

00:59:15:12 – 00:59:19:00
Joseph
Gonna make it hard to get you back on on the entertainment podcast if you’re not going to watch anything.

00:59:19:00 – 00:59:32:08
Sam
I know, I know. Unless, I don’t know. They always put these articles out to try to get people to watch it. Like, you’ll never believe who showed up and or episode do. So if someone spills it for me and it’s something I actually enjoy, maybe I’ll go and watch it, but I just, I just don’t see the point at all.

00:59:32:08 – 00:59:35:28
Sam
It just feels like this bringing me along, you know? And I, I’m think I’m pulling the plug.

00:59:36:13 – 01:00:00:05
Joseph
I don’t see for me, there’s, there’s, there’s nothing else to watch right now. There’s nothing else compelling for me to watch where I don’t have the time to ingest this. And it’s Star Wars. I feel compelled to ingest our stuff. Understandable. So but that is it for our show. Today. Before we go, I once again want to invite our listening and viewing audience to subscribe to the podcast.

01:00:00:08 – 01:00:21:22
Joseph
You can find audio versions of this podcast listed as insights in entertainment. Audio and video versions of all of our podcast can be found the his insights into things here on Tune in iHeartRadio Stitcher. Anywhere you can get a podcast these days. I would also invite you to Redding gives your feedback. You can email us at comments and insights into things dot com.

01:00:22:09 – 01:00:42:08
Joseph
You can find us on Twitter and insights underscore things you can find. We stream five days a week on Twitch at Twitch, dot TV slash insights into things where you can find links to all those and more on our official website w WW dot insights into things dot com that’s it. Another one of the books by.