Insights Into Teens: Episode 70 “School Refusal”

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insightful podcasts by informative host

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[Music]

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insights into things a podcast network

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[Music]

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welcome to insights into teens a podcast

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series exploring the issues and

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challenges of today’s youth your hosts

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are Joseph and Madison Whalen a father

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and daughter team making their way

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through the challenges of the teenage

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years

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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welcome to insights in the teens this is

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episode 70 school refusal I’m your host

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Joseph Whalen and my funny and

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compassionate co-host Madison Whalen hi

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everyone how you doing today Maddie I’m

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pretty good how was your week this week

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um I had a little bit of work I needed

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to do but other than that pretty chill

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some school sort of winding down at this

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point just late in the season huh mm-hmm

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okay well hopefully we’ll be able to

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keep you occupied during the summer

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during the tail end of our quarantine

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here yep today we are piggybacking on

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last week’s Q&A session where we did

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talk about some school subjects and this

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one’s kind of off topic from that but

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still related this is school refusal do

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you know what school refusal is um no I

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do not okay so let’s talk briefly what

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school refusal is so I mean everyone I

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think has had a situation where

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when you’re in school there are days

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that you get up and you’re tired you

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might not really feel up to going to

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school and you may pretend to be sick or

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you need a mental health day we used to

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call them and stuff like that where you

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just stay home for no legitimate minute

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medical reason that is not school

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refusal school refusal is when there is

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an underlying reason for fear or anxiety

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so this definition comes from a website

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called paradigm treatment which is a

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teen mental health treatment center and

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they say school refusal may seem like a

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typical problem parents face however it

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is considered to be more than just

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refusing to go to school every once in a

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while when a child or teen doesn’t want

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to go to school because of anxiety or

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other emotional concerns and does

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someone a regular basis it’s turned by

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experts as school refusal school refusal

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is a term that is used to describe a

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child’s experience of missing school due

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to emotional distress at one point

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school refusal was called school phobia

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however the term changed to reflect the

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fact that a child may not be afraid of

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school but that there may be a great

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deal of stress or anxiety related to

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attending school so it’s a stress

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disorder and I think we’ve done enough

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podcasts are ready to realize that teens

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are under a lot of stress right so let

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me ask you based on that definition has

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there ever been an instance in which

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you’ve avoided going to school because

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of anxiety I mean I do sometimes not

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like going to school mainly due to

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having to see people who really aren’t

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that nice to me but it would never got

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to the point where I was just had and in

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like an intense fear of going to school

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I’ve never really gotten at that point

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and in another situation where school

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refusal can come up

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is avoiding something bad that you

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anticipate happening for instance a

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project that you didn’t complete and you

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know it’s due on Friday and if you stay

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home Friday because you didn’t finish it

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maybe you can do it over the weekend and

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rush and turn it in or something like

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that have you ever had a situation where

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there’s been a a test or an assignment

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or something like that that you weren’t

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either

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ready for or didn’t have complete and

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you’ve tried to avoid going to school as

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a result of that I mean I’ve never

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actually been able to um leave stay home

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from school to do a project I I do

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remember at the beginning of the of the

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remote learning we had had a project and

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I had had to finish some of the parts

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because apparently the other people

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wouldn’t actually do it and I couldn’t

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turn it in because I wasn’t the actual

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owner and no one else was actually

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responding to it so I kind of got that a

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bit of anxiety but I wouldn’t have

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skipped school for that but I can recall

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at one point when I was in sixth grade

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that um I was really facing a lot of

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problems at that point and I think

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that’s actually the closest thing I can

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say to having not wanting to go to

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school

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I just remembered thinking of that

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instance I remember I was in my room and

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I really wasn’t very keen on going to

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school since one no one really from my

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class ever spoke to me I was honestly

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mostly alone besides a couple friends

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here and there and I’d actually asked

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mommy if I could stay home from school

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um she said to wait for me to wait until

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morning to see if I decided to go or not

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and I went okay

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alright how about your friends you know

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if any friends of yours or have

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experienced the anxiety or stressed to

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the point that they’ve tried to avoid

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going to school I mean I do know a

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friend and seven

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great who I met um he was sometimes not

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at school but I was mainly for personal

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reasons and wasn’t because um he had a

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fear of going to school I mean that

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might also have been it since he was

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kind of a target at school but um he

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never really mentioned anything to me he

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only said like whenever he was out he

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said like it was like family or he was

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sick or something like that my friends

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have had a few issues so a couple of my

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other friends have had issues with like

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students not being very nice to them but

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it never got to the point where they

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tried to skip school I remember when I

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whenever a nun will never I didn’t have

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any friends at school um I definitely

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worried about them but they never said

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it was anything bad about like school

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fuser it was just like oh I was sick or

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oh I need to take a personal day okay

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well you haven’t had much exposure to it

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which is a good thing and you know kind

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of kind of is a statement to the

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environment that they portray for you at

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school where it’s a much more nurturing

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environment that you don’t have those

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levels of stress which is nice so we’re

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going to take our first break here we’re

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going to come back and we’ll talk about

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what the symptoms are and what to look

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out for if kids are suffering from

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school refusal or the anxiety associated

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with them for over seven years

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so let’s talk about symptoms the anxiety

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and depression Association of America

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says the children at school refusal may

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complain of physical symptoms

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shortly before it’s time to leave for

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school or repeatedly asked to visit the

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school nurse

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if the child is allowed to stay home the

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symptoms quickly disappear only to

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reappear the next morning when it’s time

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for school again and in some cases

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children may refuse to leave the house

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entirely so a couple of the common

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physical symptoms you run into headaches

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stomach aches and nausea or diarrhea now

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one of the things that’s worth

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mentioning here is that these are all

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kind of subjective symptoms like

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you can’t go to the nurse and say you

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have a headache and the nurse run some

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kind of diagnostic it says up yeah you

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definitely have a headache right I mean

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it’s like you can’t take the temperature

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and find out you have a headache or

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anything so a lot of these are

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legitimate for sure because of the

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stress associated with them but some of

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these are what we might term is

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psychosomatic they don’t really have

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these symptoms they’re just inducing

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them themselves and sometimes they’re

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just made up now when you are going

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through the issues you’ve mentioned in

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sixth grade did you physically manifest

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any of these symptoms here headache

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stomach aches nausea or anything like

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that I mean whenever I really got upset

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and when I was in sixth grade I got

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upset a lot I remembered I would have

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stomach aches and headaches mainly due

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to just I don’t really know what the

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cause of it was um but I remember

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whenever I had gotten upset and the time

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I did get upset and wanted to stay home

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it I just remember having a headache and

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I had a stomachache and also sort of a

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loss of breath honestly I feel like now

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whenever I get upset like I lose my

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breath and it’s kind of hard to breathe

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and yeah I kind of felt some of the

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symptoms but yeah and and sometimes a

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lot of the symptoms that we’re talking

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about it especially the breathing

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they are stress induced you know one of

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the first things that you find when you

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start to get upset is you get that real

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quick heavy labored breathing you start

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to hyperventilate and and the

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hyperventilating and the difficulty

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breathing get you even more upset as it

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starts to scare you

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but there are behavioral patterns to

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keep an eye out on – so for instance you

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may see children have temper tantrums

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when it comes to getting up for school

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or getting ready for school they may be

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inflexible you know they may not be

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willing to compromise in situations that

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that normally they would want to

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compromise on like choosing a meal or

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choosing where to to go on the weekends

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or cooperating with their friends they

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may experience separation anxiety and

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this happens a lot in the younger kids

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to where when they’re with their mothers

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for their fathers for so long when when

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they go off to school they lose that

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bond and they that scares them and they

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go through this separation anxiety for

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for quite some time

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avoidance is another characteristic that

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you’ll see they’ll just ignore requests

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they’ll avoid trying to take on

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additional responsibilities they’ll

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start making excuses for why they can’t

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do things and this ultimately culminates

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in outward defiance where your your

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students become uncooperative for even

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the most simplest things when you went

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through your stressful period do you

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think you exhibited any of these same

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behaviors did you have Tantrums or

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anything like that I mean whenever I got

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upset um at the Loews things with my

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mood swings I would sort of have

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Tantrums like that I definitely don’t

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think I had separation anxiety since um

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I was already kind of used to well

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in a way I kind of needed you guys in

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certain situations when bad things

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happened at school and I wished you guys

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were there so I guess I kind of had a

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bit of um separation anxiety in that

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point okay what about the defiance part

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did you ever become defiant as a result

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of this I mean I’ve never tried to

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become defiant but at some but I

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remember one time I had got I had a

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really bad morning and I had just

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completely lost control of my emotions

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and they just kind of let out during

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class and I just needed some time to

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cool down I never really tried to be

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defiant but I wouldn’t say I tried to

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take on extra responsibilities like if

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someone wanted me to do something so if

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there was an option I’d probably not do

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it so yeah and I think that the one

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thing that that I probably could say

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that I saw in you was a lot of anger

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like you had a very difficult time

0:15:01.890,0:15:07.149
restraining yourself and as a result you

0:15:05.350,0:15:08.829
had a very short fuse so things would

0:15:07.149,0:15:10.899
set you off a lot faster than they

0:15:08.829,0:15:12.910
normally would

0:15:10.899,0:15:14.740
and that’s typical when you’re when

0:15:12.910,0:15:17.680
you’re stressed out there’s only so much

0:15:14.740,0:15:20.709
that you know a person can take before

0:15:17.680,0:15:23.079
they just refuse to take anymore in they

0:15:20.709,0:15:27.610
snap so I don’t think it was anything

0:15:23.079,0:15:29.379
that was unusual in fact when you were

0:15:27.610,0:15:31.029
going through all that that was really

0:15:29.379,0:15:33.910
what the impetus was of starting this

0:15:31.029,0:15:36.040
podcast you know it was to have these

0:15:33.910,0:15:39.399
talks and to go through these things and

0:15:36.040,0:15:41.679
and do them kind of in a clinical manner

0:15:39.399,0:15:43.360
so that we could address these issues

0:15:41.679,0:15:46.149
and come up with some solutions for you

0:15:43.360,0:15:50.230
and I don’t know do you think they’ve

0:15:46.149,0:15:53.759
helped yeah definitely um I definitely

0:15:50.230,0:15:57.730
think after the podcast started I’ve

0:15:53.759,0:15:59.860
gotten less I have had less anger built

0:15:57.730,0:16:01.959
up I becoming more tolerable of things

0:15:59.860,0:16:06.429
especially by the end of the school year

0:16:01.959,0:16:10.209
like kids that would annoy me um mean my

0:16:06.429,0:16:13.059
friends I would be the one to make sure

0:16:10.209,0:16:15.129
that my friends didn’t lose it and I

0:16:13.059,0:16:18.309
would always make sure to calm myself

0:16:15.129,0:16:22.300
down and of course now I still have some

0:16:18.309,0:16:24.480
short moments where I get frustrated but

0:16:22.300,0:16:28.079
I never try to lash it out at people

0:16:24.480,0:16:30.879
it’s mainly at inanimate objects or

0:16:28.079,0:16:32.410
technology yeah yeah don’t know where

0:16:30.879,0:16:35.649
you get that from nope

0:16:32.410,0:16:40.179
uh-huh so so there are a number of

0:16:35.649,0:16:42.009
common causes for for school refusal if

0:16:40.179,0:16:44.350
a teen is refusing to go to school and

0:16:42.009,0:16:46.959
if there’s an emotional reason behind

0:16:44.350,0:16:50.439
the parents might begin by uncovering

0:16:46.959,0:16:53.110
what the source is for the teens anxiety

0:16:50.439,0:16:57.209
and emotional distress so some of the

0:16:53.110,0:16:57.209
reasons why teens

0:17:00.150,0:17:05.319
why’s Keynes won’t go to school is

0:17:02.380,0:17:08.890
facing a bully have you ever had to face

0:17:05.319,0:17:12.990
a bully I mean I remember that there

0:17:08.890,0:17:16.930
were I don’t know if I was necessarily

0:17:12.990,0:17:18.910
bullied immediately but I do remember in

0:17:16.930,0:17:22.180
the later years of the school year um

0:17:18.910,0:17:24.880
and in like about the middle when I was

0:17:22.180,0:17:28.060
in sixth grade um when I was in

0:17:24.880,0:17:30.190
aftercare me and my friend would for

0:17:28.060,0:17:33.570
some reason get picked on by fourth

0:17:30.190,0:17:36.580
graders like people who were her age and

0:17:33.570,0:17:39.580
honestly they were not nice whatsoever

0:17:36.580,0:17:43.330
they honestly picked the stupidest

0:17:39.580,0:17:45.820
reasons to mess with us and it and for

0:17:43.330,0:17:48.730
the most part in the beginning I got

0:17:45.820,0:17:51.010
frustrated because I didn’t like being

0:17:48.730,0:17:53.440
picked on by them and the fact that they

0:17:51.010,0:17:54.910
were just so rude to me in her and I

0:17:53.440,0:17:57.850
remember about the end of it they still

0:17:54.910,0:18:00.850
didn’t change but I remember to keep my

0:17:57.850,0:18:03.220
cool and I had to help my friend who was

0:18:00.850,0:18:05.050
really being affected by them well

0:18:03.220,0:18:07.629
that’s great you stepped up and you took

0:18:05.050,0:18:11.529
the high road I think that’s important

0:18:07.629,0:18:13.210
I’m about not understanding a subject or

0:18:11.529,0:18:16.899
failing in a subject have you ever

0:18:13.210,0:18:19.989
experienced that and has that been a

0:18:16.899,0:18:22.989
cause of anxiety that might have driven

0:18:19.989,0:18:25.239
you to not want to go to school I mean I

0:18:22.989,0:18:27.489
don’t have anything for sixth grade

0:18:25.239,0:18:30.190
because I had pretty good grades in

0:18:27.489,0:18:32.950
sixth grade but in the first marking

0:18:30.190,0:18:37.179
period of seventh grade I had gotten a

0:18:32.950,0:18:41.139
high B I had been one point off for

0:18:37.179,0:18:43.960
having an A in my math class and that

0:18:41.139,0:18:47.009
had definitely gotten me really upset I

0:18:43.960,0:18:49.269
thought that I had failed my

0:18:47.009,0:18:52.779
expectations and that I would never

0:18:49.269,0:18:54.759
recover from it and it in a way it kind

0:18:52.779,0:18:58.059
of made me not when I have to not want

0:18:54.759,0:19:00.309
to go back to school to just see like

0:18:58.059,0:19:02.080
any disappointment from like my math

0:19:00.309,0:19:04.869
teacher or anyone else who knew about

0:19:02.080,0:19:06.340
that well I could certainly see how that

0:19:04.869,0:19:08.289
would discourage you from wanting to go

0:19:06.340,0:19:10.659
back to school yeah I just had really

0:19:08.289,0:19:12.759
high expectations for myself and when I

0:19:10.659,0:19:15.609
didn’t meet it I’m really hard on myself

0:19:12.759,0:19:18.429
how about rejection from your peers you

0:19:15.609,0:19:20.200
had mentioned during sixth grade not

0:19:18.429,0:19:22.960
really having anyone that talked to you

0:19:20.200,0:19:25.239
have you experienced outright rejection

0:19:22.960,0:19:27.639
where where they’re shunning you or

0:19:25.239,0:19:29.259
their their ostracizing you and not

0:19:27.639,0:19:33.249
including you in things

0:19:29.259,0:19:35.499
I mean people never interacted with me

0:19:33.249,0:19:37.299
really like no one who was feeling my

0:19:35.499,0:19:39.599
friends unless they were just outright

0:19:37.299,0:19:42.639
being rude to me none of my classmates

0:19:39.599,0:19:44.289
deliberately went out and rejected me I

0:19:42.639,0:19:46.809
do remember at the end of the school

0:19:44.289,0:19:50.379
year though everyone had been doing

0:19:46.809,0:19:52.720
these voting for best student for

0:19:50.379,0:19:55.989
whatever and I really didn’t care that I

0:19:52.720,0:19:58.749
didn’t win any but I realized that no

0:19:55.989,0:20:01.269
one really noticed me like there was

0:19:58.749,0:20:04.090
only one person who voted me for

0:20:01.269,0:20:06.999
anything and there was like only one

0:20:04.090,0:20:09.039
time my name actually showed up and it

0:20:06.999,0:20:12.279
made me realize that no one really

0:20:09.039,0:20:14.200
noticed me not that that’s necessarily a

0:20:12.279,0:20:17.519
bad thing you know there are advantages

0:20:14.200,0:20:17.519
of flying below the radar

0:20:17.580,0:20:22.019
what about another reason they talk

0:20:19.590,0:20:25.559
about here is family conflicts and

0:20:22.019,0:20:27.899
problems at home have you had to contend

0:20:25.559,0:20:30.809
with anything like that I mean no you

0:20:27.899,0:20:33.179
guys are very kind to me and we never

0:20:30.809,0:20:34.999
really get in any fights you don’t

0:20:33.179,0:20:37.619
normally yell at me for anything

0:20:34.999,0:20:41.970
although sometimes I think you are going

0:20:37.619,0:20:44.009
no because I did like I had a bad grade

0:20:41.970,0:20:46.590
and I’m afraid you gonna yell at me for

0:20:44.009,0:20:48.240
it but we never really have any bad

0:20:46.590,0:20:50.509
conflicts and that never really stopped

0:20:48.240,0:20:54.240
me from going to school in fact it was

0:20:50.509,0:20:56.389
it was actually a reason on why coming

0:20:54.240,0:20:58.710
home from school was a good thing like

0:20:56.389,0:21:02.399
when I had a bad day I would come to you

0:20:58.710,0:21:06.090
guys ya know do you think any of your

0:21:02.399,0:21:08.549
friends may be facing some some family

0:21:06.090,0:21:10.769
problems that might be a cause of

0:21:08.549,0:21:14.369
anxiety at school that might want to

0:21:10.769,0:21:16.830
have them not because a lot of times you

0:21:14.369,0:21:19.529
know in when I was going to school there

0:21:16.830,0:21:21.389
were kids that went through divorces hmm

0:21:19.529,0:21:25.289
and when the kids would go through

0:21:21.389,0:21:27.990
divorces there was a they felt they had

0:21:25.289,0:21:30.240
a stigma to them like they people were

0:21:27.990,0:21:31.860
whispering behind their back because of

0:21:30.240,0:21:33.480
what was going on in their family life

0:21:31.860,0:21:36.840
and stuff like I’m and that’s one friend

0:21:33.480,0:21:41.039
of mine who was a very good student very

0:21:36.840,0:21:44.129
good kid and was genuinely very kind

0:21:41.039,0:21:45.929
others and then when his mom and dad

0:21:44.129,0:21:48.360
started running into these problems and

0:21:45.929,0:21:51.570
they eventually divorced he became a

0:21:48.360,0:21:53.100
very different person and it turned out

0:21:51.570,0:21:55.919
the people around him weren’t treating

0:21:53.100,0:21:57.809
him differently because of his family

0:21:55.919,0:22:01.529
life they were treating him differently

0:21:57.809,0:22:03.240
because he was acting differently do you

0:22:01.529,0:22:04.889
know of any of your friends that may be

0:22:03.240,0:22:08.070
going through something like this that

0:22:04.889,0:22:11.460
that you might be concerned about I mean

0:22:08.070,0:22:14.460
my one friend I met um this year he had

0:22:11.460,0:22:18.240
actually once I got to know him a bit he

0:22:14.460,0:22:19.890
had told me about a few problems he was

0:22:18.240,0:22:22.380
having at home

0:22:19.890,0:22:23.880
not necessarily with his parents but

0:22:22.380,0:22:26.580
with his grandparents who they were

0:22:23.880,0:22:29.550
living with they’d been going through a

0:22:26.580,0:22:32.640
few problems and some of the reasons

0:22:29.550,0:22:37.140
like I said before that he was um out of

0:22:32.640,0:22:39.870
school was due to his family issues so

0:22:37.140,0:22:42.290
it was kind of I’d imagine that’d be

0:22:39.870,0:22:45.000
kind of hard for him to come to school

0:22:42.290,0:22:49.200
after with having to deal with the

0:22:45.000,0:22:50.700
family problems although no one well at

0:22:49.200,0:22:52.860
least not that I told me no one actually

0:22:50.700,0:22:54.930
made fun of him for it they made fun of

0:22:52.860,0:22:57.270
him for other reasons but no one

0:22:54.930,0:23:00.720
actually like said anything bad about

0:22:57.270,0:23:02.940
his family or any or really um had

0:23:00.720,0:23:06.870
picked on him for his family reasons

0:23:02.940,0:23:09.450
it’s just he had a sort of a bad family

0:23:06.870,0:23:11.040
life and I can see why he would might

0:23:09.450,0:23:14.100
not want to go to school because of it

0:23:11.040,0:23:17.040
yeah I could certainly see that the last

0:23:14.100,0:23:19.380
two common reasons they have here are

0:23:17.040,0:23:23.460
medical reasons one being a physical

0:23:19.380,0:23:25.980
illness and the other being the presence

0:23:23.460,0:23:29.010
of an actual anxiety disorder that that

0:23:25.980,0:23:31.080
you may be suffering from I wanted to

0:23:29.010,0:23:32.990
talk briefly about of the physical

0:23:31.080,0:23:38.360
illness

0:23:32.990,0:23:41.690
there are people who have dietary issues

0:23:38.360,0:23:43.640
there are in fact I work with with

0:23:41.690,0:23:46.910
someone who has celiac where they can’t

0:23:43.640,0:23:49.730
digest carbs correctly and it causes

0:23:46.910,0:23:52.130
problems I had a friend whose wife had

0:23:49.730,0:23:55.400
some dietary issues so it was very

0:23:52.130,0:23:57.080
difficult for for her to go out of the

0:23:55.400,0:23:59.840
house and be too far away from a

0:23:57.080,0:24:03.080
restroom I had another friend of mine

0:23:59.840,0:24:06.350
that I’d worked with who had a genetic

0:24:03.080,0:24:08.300
disorder that caused her difficulty

0:24:06.350,0:24:11.720
moving around so she had to walk with

0:24:08.300,0:24:13.910
crutches and stuff do you have anybody

0:24:11.720,0:24:16.880
in school like that who was who was

0:24:13.910,0:24:20.059
suffering from a physical condition or

0:24:16.880,0:24:22.130
ailment or something like that that that

0:24:20.059,0:24:24.650
might make it very difficult for them to

0:24:22.130,0:24:26.809
go to school on a regular basis well I

0:24:24.650,0:24:31.040
know that it was this one girl who was

0:24:26.809,0:24:33.590
in a few of my classes I noticed after a

0:24:31.040,0:24:35.690
little while she had had a few problems

0:24:33.590,0:24:40.370
with her legs to the point where she had

0:24:35.690,0:24:44.030
to take the elevator down I’m not going

0:24:40.370,0:24:46.550
to go into detail but it was it walked

0:24:44.030,0:24:48.679
strange and her knees weren’t exactly in

0:24:46.550,0:24:52.370
the right positions and she had to take

0:24:48.679,0:24:55.870
the elevator down and I can see why she

0:24:52.370,0:24:58.309
might not want to go to school because

0:24:55.870,0:25:00.110
the only people who use the elevator

0:24:58.309,0:25:02.210
were people who couldn’t go down the

0:25:00.110,0:25:06.200
stairs if they had like a broken leg or

0:25:02.210,0:25:08.410
any body placement that would cause them

0:25:06.200,0:25:10.940
to have problems going down the stairs

0:25:08.410,0:25:13.900
and I can see why you would have made

0:25:10.940,0:25:16.700
her it might it might have made her it

0:25:13.900,0:25:21.350
harder to go to school because of that

0:25:16.700,0:25:24.440
because people it’s strange to see

0:25:21.350,0:25:26.660
people who don’t look like the average

0:25:24.440,0:25:28.520
human being and I accept those kinds of

0:25:26.660,0:25:31.820
people because I understand that they

0:25:28.520,0:25:36.110
might have fear of having society judge

0:25:31.820,0:25:39.500
them when you had an issue

0:25:36.110,0:25:42.860
a few years back when you had the HMS

0:25:39.500,0:25:45.350
and you were having the the cramping in

0:25:42.860,0:25:49.429
the legs and you were developing the

0:25:45.350,0:25:51.410
rash and stuff like that that was

0:25:49.429,0:25:52.880
happening during the summer though so

0:25:51.410,0:25:56.030
you you weren’t going to school at the

0:25:52.880,0:25:57.380
time but had you been in school at that

0:25:56.030,0:25:59.090
time that’s something we would have

0:25:57.380,0:26:04.370
wound up keeping you home for because

0:25:59.090,0:26:06.020
you literally couldn’t walk so there are

0:26:04.370,0:26:08.360
temporary conditions like that that

0:26:06.020,0:26:12.260
could cause this as well and the last

0:26:08.360,0:26:14.750
thing that they mentioned in here is an

0:26:12.260,0:26:16.929
anxiety disorder you know you may suffer

0:26:14.750,0:26:16.929
from

0:26:17.290,0:26:22.130
like I can’t think of any any anxiety

0:26:20.090,0:26:24.470
disorders off in my head but you know

0:26:22.130,0:26:28.910
there may be certain phobias that you

0:26:24.470,0:26:31.670
have like for instance if you’re afraid

0:26:28.910,0:26:33.260
of germs you know being in a place where

0:26:31.670,0:26:36.080
you’re surrounded by all these other

0:26:33.260,0:26:37.490
people and you’re elbow-to-elbow going

0:26:36.080,0:26:41.060
through the hallways and stuff like that

0:26:37.490,0:26:42.440
I could very easily be overwhelming for

0:26:41.060,0:26:46.700
someone like that don’t you think

0:26:42.440,0:26:49.580
yeah definitely like having to be in

0:26:46.700,0:26:53.060
that kind of environment would like make

0:26:49.580,0:26:58.820
a germophobe just freak out immediately

0:26:53.060,0:27:01.100
and I and it would make sense cuz school

0:26:58.820,0:27:04.010
is basically filled with germs and it’s

0:27:01.100,0:27:06.590
one of the main reasons why we have

0:27:04.010,0:27:09.140
remote learning now because there’s so

0:27:06.590,0:27:12.560
much contact with other people yeah

0:27:09.140,0:27:14.750
that’s absolutely correct so they are

0:27:12.560,0:27:18.950
sort of the common reasons people

0:27:14.750,0:27:20.510
develop school refusal but we’re gonna

0:27:18.950,0:27:22.400
take another quick break we’ll come back

0:27:20.510,0:27:24.350
and we’re going to look at what parents

0:27:22.400,0:27:36.590
can do to help their children in these

0:27:24.350,0:27:38.960
situations insights into entertainment a

0:27:36.590,0:27:41.919
podcast series taking a deeper look into

0:27:38.960,0:27:45.020
entertainment and media

0:27:41.919,0:27:47.480
our husband-and-wife team of pop culture

0:27:45.020,0:27:49.880
fanatics are exploring all things for

0:27:47.480,0:27:54.350
music and movies to television and

0:27:49.880,0:27:57.850
fandom we’ll look at the interesting and

0:27:54.350,0:28:00.650
obscure entertainment news of the week

0:27:57.850,0:28:03.049
we’ll talk about theme park and pop

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culture news we’ll give you the latest

0:28:03.049,0:28:08.929
and greatest on pop culture conventions

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will give you a deep dive into Disney

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Star Wars and much more check out our

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video episodes at youtube.com backslash

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0:28:20.840,0:28:26.690
at podcast insights into entertainment

0:28:23.299,0:28:29.850
calm or check us out on the web at

0:28:26.690,0:28:31.910
insights into things calm

0:28:29.850,0:28:31.910
you

0:28:36.480,0:28:41.050
so you know pears are here to help you

0:28:39.340,0:28:42.700
right mm-hmm you know whether it’s your

0:28:41.050,0:28:45.940
parents your guardians could be your

0:28:42.700,0:28:47.680
grandparents whoever it is so there’s a

0:28:45.940,0:28:50.680
number of things that parents can do to

0:28:47.680,0:28:52.510
help in these situations the first one

0:28:50.680,0:28:56.440
they talk about is exposing children to

0:28:52.510,0:28:59.800
school in small degrees one of the

0:28:56.440,0:29:02.940
things that one of the transitionary

0:28:59.800,0:29:05.980
periods that you have sometimes is

0:29:02.940,0:29:08.140
children that are home-schooled who have

0:29:05.980,0:29:10.620
to transition into a public school for

0:29:08.140,0:29:13.330
whatever reason you know they’re

0:29:10.620,0:29:15.910
graduating out of the point where

0:29:13.330,0:29:18.420
they’re in homeschooling and they’re

0:29:15.910,0:29:20.620
going to college or something like that

0:29:18.420,0:29:23.740
or you know you might have a situation

0:29:20.620,0:29:25.990
where for financial reasons the parent

0:29:23.740,0:29:28.720
who’s homeschooling you has to stay home

0:29:25.990,0:29:32.320
it has to go get a job and you have to

0:29:28.720,0:29:36.340
start you know public school and that

0:29:32.320,0:29:38.710
could be a real change to you so they

0:29:36.340,0:29:40.300
say increase exposure over time with

0:29:38.710,0:29:41.980
anything that you might have a phobia

0:29:40.300,0:29:45.220
we’ve talked about this in our phobias

0:29:41.980,0:29:47.860
is to sort of ramp up your exposure to

0:29:45.220,0:29:49.570
the thing that causes your anxiety so

0:29:47.860,0:29:54.010
that you can start to build a tolerance

0:29:49.570,0:29:56.350
to it and and eventually realize that

0:29:54.010,0:29:58.330
there’s nothing to fear

0:29:56.350,0:30:00.890
and that nothing Bad’s going to happen

0:29:58.330,0:30:03.740
so that’s kind of a simple one

0:30:00.890,0:30:07.480
the other one is talk you know talk to

0:30:03.740,0:30:09.490
your child about the feelings and fears

0:30:07.480,0:30:11.260
and we do this a lot I mean this is

0:30:09.490,0:30:13.750
really what the exercise of the podcast

0:30:11.260,0:30:17.020
this year’s is to talk about these

0:30:13.750,0:30:18.700
things when you got your bad grade you

0:30:17.020,0:30:20.260
know we preempted what we had planned

0:30:18.700,0:30:23.740
for the podcast to talk about these

0:30:20.260,0:30:25.300
things do you find talking about these

0:30:23.740,0:30:26.590
things you know

0:30:25.300,0:30:29.890
whether it’s things that are bothering

0:30:26.590,0:30:31.600
you or things that you’re afraid of or

0:30:29.890,0:30:36.000
things that are causing you anxiety do

0:30:31.600,0:30:43.030
you find a benefit from that yeah I do

0:30:36.000,0:30:46.870
having having someone listened to me

0:30:43.030,0:30:49.960
talk and how I expressed my day and how

0:30:46.870,0:30:52.240
I express my problems and sometimes

0:30:49.960,0:30:56.650
getting a solution for it really helps

0:30:52.240,0:31:00.040
me it feels good to have someone who

0:30:56.650,0:31:03.340
listens to you and I really love the

0:31:00.040,0:31:05.800
support you guys give me and and I’m on

0:31:03.340,0:31:09.460
and I honestly really benefit from the

0:31:05.800,0:31:13.360
podcast because not only am I am i

0:31:09.460,0:31:15.910
helping my own mental mental issues and

0:31:13.360,0:31:18.450
other issues like that but I’m able to

0:31:15.910,0:31:20.620
help others as well right that’s true

0:31:18.450,0:31:26.490
one of the other things they talk about

0:31:20.620,0:31:28.360
is self-help techniques and a sign from

0:31:26.490,0:31:31.230
resolving some of the issues that

0:31:28.360,0:31:33.400
someone might have through self-help

0:31:31.230,0:31:36.760
self-help is also very empowering

0:31:33.400,0:31:39.490
because by solving your own problems and

0:31:36.760,0:31:41.680
not having to get a prescription for it

0:31:39.490,0:31:44.370
or something like that solving your own

0:31:41.680,0:31:47.680
problems is very empowering for people

0:31:44.370,0:31:49.630
so they suggest you know doing your own

0:31:47.680,0:31:53.790
research for self help look reading

0:31:49.630,0:31:56.410
books for self help be open to new ideas

0:31:53.790,0:32:01.120
the parents should be open the new ideas

0:31:56.410,0:32:03.790
so that the child is as well if we as

0:32:01.120,0:32:06.490
parents are closed minded and not

0:32:03.790,0:32:08.260
objective that’s exactly how our

0:32:06.490,0:32:10.000
children are going to wind up being and

0:32:08.260,0:32:11.740
sometimes you need to be open and

0:32:10.000,0:32:14.970
flexible in order to get through certain

0:32:11.740,0:32:14.970
difficult situations

0:32:15.170,0:32:19.950
meet with the school counselor now we’ve

0:32:18.299,0:32:22.559
not met with your counselor yet although

0:32:19.950,0:32:24.690
I think mommy’s been in touch with your

0:32:22.559,0:32:26.790
teachers and so forth and communicating

0:32:24.690,0:32:29.040
I know we’ve talked to previous teachers

0:32:26.790,0:32:31.280
and we try to attend the the

0:32:29.040,0:32:33.330
parent-teacher conferences and

0:32:31.280,0:32:36.059
back-to-school nights and stuff like

0:32:33.330,0:32:38.160
that how much communication do you have

0:32:36.059,0:32:43.110
with your teachers or with the

0:32:38.160,0:32:44.970
counselors at school about these anxiety

0:32:43.110,0:32:48.030
generating things or anything in general

0:32:44.970,0:32:50.190
how’s the communication I mean I

0:32:48.030,0:32:53.360
remember in the beginning of the year I

0:32:50.190,0:32:55.860
was called to the school counselor to

0:32:53.360,0:32:59.370
sort of have a check-up for her to get

0:32:55.860,0:33:02.520
to know all the students that is all the

0:32:59.370,0:33:06.809
new 7th graders and it was sort of like

0:33:02.520,0:33:08.730
making sure that you were all right and

0:33:06.809,0:33:10.470
if you ever needed to come in you were

0:33:08.730,0:33:13.770
loud you just had to ask your teacher

0:33:10.470,0:33:17.010
about it so I definitely think that the

0:33:13.770,0:33:20.940
school counselor would definitely help

0:33:17.010,0:33:24.630
if anyone needed to have a talk about

0:33:20.940,0:33:28.730
anything and they had and I remember

0:33:24.630,0:33:32.160
when I was in the nurse office and the

0:33:28.730,0:33:35.190
counselors office they had had this one

0:33:32.160,0:33:38.040
sign where whatever you say stays

0:33:35.190,0:33:42.150
whatever they talk about stays in there

0:33:38.040,0:33:44.520
unless it’s something serious and it was

0:33:42.150,0:33:46.140
also kind of relieving to know because

0:33:44.520,0:33:48.270
you were able to get that extra help

0:33:46.140,0:33:50.700
well that’s good yeah I mean privacy I

0:33:48.270,0:33:52.559
think is important when you’re talking

0:33:50.700,0:33:55.380
about any kind of counseling session

0:33:52.559,0:33:59.280
like that one of the other things they

0:33:55.380,0:34:01.559
suggest is arranging an informal meeting

0:33:59.280,0:34:04.110
with your child’s teacher away from

0:34:01.559,0:34:08.250
classroom I don’t know how many teachers

0:34:04.110,0:34:09.750
are really willing to do something like

0:34:08.250,0:34:11.610
that I’m sure there are a number of them

0:34:09.750,0:34:13.860
that are

0:34:11.610,0:34:16.170
but we’ve never had to do anything like

0:34:13.860,0:34:18.540
that in your case here any meetings

0:34:16.170,0:34:22.380
we’ve had with your teacher has been

0:34:18.540,0:34:26.429
either at the school or you know mommy

0:34:22.380,0:34:27.960
was kind enough to FaceTime with me for

0:34:26.429,0:34:30.320
a couple of them so I could participate

0:34:27.960,0:34:32.790
yeah

0:34:30.320,0:34:35.580
they also say they’ll encourage hobbies

0:34:32.790,0:34:41.070
and your children and and nurture these

0:34:35.580,0:34:43.200
interests fun is relaxing and relaxation

0:34:41.070,0:34:44.400
is the key to really distressing right

0:34:43.200,0:34:46.410
mm-hmm

0:34:44.400,0:34:49.230
and the other thing and we sort of

0:34:46.410,0:34:51.660
touched on this last week it’s that

0:34:49.230,0:34:54.780
hobbies are a good distraction to help

0:34:51.660,0:34:56.580
you build self-confidence so when you’re

0:34:54.780,0:35:00.090
working on something where you’re in the

0:34:56.580,0:35:02.310
zone like we had talked about you can

0:35:00.090,0:35:04.430
shut out the whole world you can shut

0:35:02.310,0:35:08.010
out these things that stress you out and

0:35:04.430,0:35:09.690
focus on building your Legos or building

0:35:08.010,0:35:14.360
your house and Sims or whatever it is

0:35:09.690,0:35:18.270
and that mental focus is very

0:35:14.360,0:35:20.220
therapeutic for you what when you’re

0:35:18.270,0:35:23.580
stressed out what hobbies do you find

0:35:20.220,0:35:26.790
that you fall into as a means of

0:35:23.580,0:35:28.860
relaxing and distressing I mean the

0:35:26.790,0:35:31.320
obvious one is drawling I’ve mentioned

0:35:28.860,0:35:33.750
that multiple times I mean I know that

0:35:31.320,0:35:36.060
when I’m drawing on designing the

0:35:33.750,0:35:38.280
character and the fact that I need

0:35:36.060,0:35:40.980
everything to be perfect definitely

0:35:38.280,0:35:43.770
takes out definitely like gets me away

0:35:40.980,0:35:45.450
from all my anxiety that I’ve built up

0:35:43.770,0:35:49.560
over the day and it’s a good stress

0:35:45.450,0:35:52.020
reliever and helps me calm down also

0:35:49.560,0:35:54.420
like I said doing the Sims

0:35:52.020,0:35:57.660
building the house creating a family

0:35:54.420,0:35:59.400
that’s also helpful um most of my

0:35:57.660,0:36:01.620
hobbies are able to take my attention

0:35:59.400,0:36:04.290
away from that because my concentration

0:36:01.620,0:36:07.500
is just solely based on that and my

0:36:04.290,0:36:09.950
creativity eventually takes over and my

0:36:07.500,0:36:12.720
anxiety by that point is just forgotten

0:36:09.950,0:36:15.810
until it’s brought up again well and

0:36:12.720,0:36:19.520
what I like about this summary that you

0:36:15.810,0:36:23.310
just gave is the hobbies that you find

0:36:19.520,0:36:24.390
solace in our constructive hobbies you

0:36:23.310,0:36:26.549
know it’s drawn

0:36:24.390,0:36:30.200
it’s creating something or it’s building

0:36:26.549,0:36:33.119
something or it’s you know it’s not

0:36:30.200,0:36:36.569
watching TV it’s not anything works like

0:36:33.119,0:36:39.150
some brain numbing thing or you know the

0:36:36.569,0:36:42.150
video games that you play yeah we used

0:36:39.150,0:36:44.519
to distress playing Call of Duty and and

0:36:42.150,0:36:48.779
let’s face it that is a good distress er

0:36:44.519,0:36:51.000
but the ones that you fall back to by

0:36:48.779,0:36:53.250
default are very constructive ones which

0:36:51.000,0:36:55.160
I think speaks volumes about your

0:36:53.250,0:36:57.329
character

0:36:55.160,0:37:00.450
they also say that parents should

0:36:57.329,0:37:03.540
emphasize the positive aspects of going

0:37:00.450,0:37:04.950
to school they have three here let me

0:37:03.540,0:37:09.410
see if you can come up with the three

0:37:04.950,0:37:12.660
what do you think they are I’m assuming

0:37:09.410,0:37:14.240
being with friends that’s number one on

0:37:12.660,0:37:18.150
the list

0:37:14.240,0:37:24.470
receiving good grades not on the list

0:37:18.150,0:37:24.470
but learning learning a favorite subject

0:37:24.530,0:37:29.210
and what’s the last one you’ll never get

0:37:29.600,0:37:34.890
[Music]

0:37:32.809,0:37:38.210
because it has to do with your least

0:37:34.890,0:37:42.329
favorite subject let me guess

0:37:38.210,0:37:45.510
being able to run around outside playing

0:37:42.329,0:37:48.089
at recess and gym and luncheon and by

0:37:45.510,0:37:49.800
playing at lunch you mean just going on

0:37:48.089,0:37:53.099
your phone because that’s probably what

0:37:49.800,0:37:55.700
most people actually do well and you

0:37:53.099,0:37:58.109
know you figure from your perspective

0:37:55.700,0:38:00.210
it’s an opportunity for you to interact

0:37:58.109,0:38:01.740
with your friends because you don’t get

0:38:00.210,0:38:03.240
to always see them outside of school

0:38:01.740,0:38:04.980
because not all your friends live close

0:38:03.240,0:38:07.980
to you

0:38:04.980,0:38:09.869
when I was growing up I lived in a

0:38:07.980,0:38:11.790
different town than my school so if I

0:38:09.869,0:38:15.300
wanted to go to a friend’s house I was a

0:38:11.790,0:38:17.490
couple miles away I I had to walk or I

0:38:15.300,0:38:18.869
had to get a ride and getting a ride was

0:38:17.490,0:38:22.859
very difficult because of the hours that

0:38:18.869,0:38:24.180
my father were mm-hmm so I enjoyed going

0:38:22.859,0:38:25.680
to school because I got to spend time

0:38:24.180,0:38:28.800
with my friends that I didn’t normally

0:38:25.680,0:38:30.630
get to spend time with and then I had

0:38:28.800,0:38:33.090
friends that were in my neighborhood

0:38:30.630,0:38:35.700
that were different grade levels and

0:38:33.090,0:38:37.980
stuff like that so there was certain

0:38:35.700,0:38:39.630
appeal to that there was also certain

0:38:37.980,0:38:42.210
sports that I liked to play in gym I

0:38:39.630,0:38:44.190
loved playing volleyball and I didn’t

0:38:42.210,0:38:48.400
really have an opportunity to play that

0:38:44.190,0:38:53.059
too much outside of school

0:38:48.400,0:38:55.099
ironically I played volleyball in a

0:38:53.059,0:38:56.930
church league for a friend of mine and

0:38:55.099,0:39:00.799
shattered my ankle but had nothing to do

0:38:56.930,0:39:03.289
with school did that kind of turn me off

0:39:00.799,0:39:06.049
from playing volleyball but yeah those

0:39:03.289,0:39:08.690
are the those are the key things and the

0:39:06.049,0:39:10.160
last thing that they talk about and I

0:39:08.690,0:39:11.809
think this is very important especially

0:39:10.160,0:39:12.680
from our perspective and I’ll tell you

0:39:11.809,0:39:15.680
why in a minute

0:39:12.680,0:39:19.490
and that’s the help your child establish

0:39:15.680,0:39:21.710
a support system a variety of people

0:39:19.490,0:39:23.690
should be in your child’s life other

0:39:21.710,0:39:25.490
children as well as family members and

0:39:23.690,0:39:29.539
teachers who are willing to talk to your

0:39:25.490,0:39:32.400
child it’s important I think for us

0:39:29.539,0:39:36.450
because

0:39:32.400,0:39:39.599
the family on my side of our family is

0:39:36.450,0:39:41.640
gone and the family on mommy side of the

0:39:39.599,0:39:44.450
family run so we don’t really have much

0:39:41.640,0:39:47.579
in the way of a support system here

0:39:44.450,0:39:51.359
outside of friends and and that makes

0:39:47.579,0:39:54.749
our friends even more special to us

0:39:51.359,0:39:58.259
you know aunt Chris Uncle Dan

0:39:54.749,0:40:00.809
Aunt Sally Aunt Nancy you know these are

0:39:58.259,0:40:03.599
the people who are really our extended

0:40:00.809,0:40:06.890
family and these are the people that are

0:40:03.599,0:40:11.369
there and they support us you know like

0:40:06.890,0:40:13.079
if mommy or I go out to I don’t know a

0:40:11.369,0:40:16.289
concert or something like that

0:40:13.079,0:40:18.989
you get to spend an evening with Aunt

0:40:16.289,0:40:21.150
Nancy let’s say and you guys have a ball

0:40:18.989,0:40:23.810
you know I think she looks forward to it

0:40:21.150,0:40:27.470
as much as you do

0:40:23.810,0:40:29.270
when I was growing up it was family that

0:40:27.470,0:40:31.550
that was there you know my aunts and

0:40:29.270,0:40:32.990
uncles and cousins and stuff like that

0:40:31.550,0:40:37.250
or my neighbors because we were very

0:40:32.990,0:40:39.440
close to our neighbors so mommy and I we

0:40:37.250,0:40:40.940
didn’t grow up in the neighborhood we

0:40:39.440,0:40:44.900
live in so we don’t have a neighbor

0:40:40.940,0:40:46.900
support organization here we don’t have

0:40:44.900,0:40:49.640
family to speak up so we don’t have that

0:40:46.900,0:40:52.130
so we’re very fortunate with the friends

0:40:49.640,0:40:54.140
which actually are mommy’s friends since

0:40:52.130,0:40:55.660
I don’t really have any friends that

0:40:54.140,0:41:00.080
live near us

0:40:55.660,0:41:01.790
there are many friends to speak of to

0:41:00.080,0:41:05.000
begin with which is kind of sad now that

0:41:01.790,0:41:06.680
I think about it you realize just how

0:41:05.000,0:41:08.630
much of an introvert you actually are

0:41:06.680,0:41:12.350
yeah I don’t have friends I just borrow

0:41:08.630,0:41:14.090
mommy’s friends yeah but I think that’s

0:41:12.350,0:41:18.050
important you know having these other

0:41:14.090,0:41:21.950
people involved in your life you just

0:41:18.050,0:41:25.970
look at the the clan from aunt Kris and

0:41:21.950,0:41:28.910
and every variety of every spice of life

0:41:25.970,0:41:31.040
that you could think of comes out of you

0:41:28.910,0:41:32.690
know the Lehigh Valley up there and you

0:41:31.040,0:41:34.640
could do experience just about

0:41:32.690,0:41:39.170
everything imaginable I think that’s

0:41:34.640,0:41:43.250
such a great spectrum to be able to to

0:41:39.170,0:41:44.930
bask in you know yeah so it’s important

0:41:43.250,0:41:47.270
to have that support system whether it’s

0:41:44.930,0:41:50.870
friends or family coworkers whatever it

0:41:47.270,0:41:53.810
is that’s one of the things that parents

0:41:50.870,0:41:55.520
and guardians really need to set up for

0:41:53.810,0:41:58.190
their kids there because it’s you can’t

0:41:55.520,0:41:59.390
always talk to us right sometimes you

0:41:58.190,0:42:00.830
have to talk to your friends because

0:41:59.390,0:42:03.110
your stuff you just don’t feel

0:42:00.830,0:42:04.490
comfortable talking to us about you know

0:42:03.110,0:42:06.520
if you haven’t gotten at that point you

0:42:04.490,0:42:11.060
will I could promise you that

0:42:06.520,0:42:14.420
so that’s why I’m always encouraging you

0:42:11.060,0:42:17.330
to make friends because you’ll need them

0:42:14.420,0:42:18.110
at some point in time if for no other

0:42:17.330,0:42:20.000
reason

0:42:18.110,0:42:21.980
you know just mental checks to make sure

0:42:20.000,0:42:23.240
that you know you’re not stepping

0:42:21.980,0:42:27.100
outside the bounds of where you should

0:42:23.240,0:42:29.600
be so that was all I had today though

0:42:27.100,0:42:30.840
we’re gonna take a quick break we’ll

0:42:29.600,0:42:32.670
come back

0:42:30.840,0:42:42.060
and we’ll get your closing remarks and

0:42:32.670,0:42:46.440
any shoutouts do you have so go for your

0:42:42.060,0:42:47.940
closing remark alrighty so I’ll start

0:42:46.440,0:42:51.360
off by saying it’s good to have a

0:42:47.940,0:42:55.110
support system and if you are struggling

0:42:51.360,0:42:57.150
with stuff at school and reasons on why

0:42:55.110,0:43:00.570
you don’t want to go to school it’s

0:42:57.150,0:43:03.660
always important to go to a good support

0:43:00.570,0:43:06.210
system and talk to them about it and

0:43:03.660,0:43:08.070
maybe they’ll be able to and they’ll do

0:43:06.210,0:43:12.840
pretty much everything they in their

0:43:08.070,0:43:20.850
power to help you and maybe help and

0:43:12.840,0:43:23.310
help you not sorry and they all will be

0:43:20.850,0:43:27.000
able to help you not have that fear of

0:43:23.310,0:43:29.160
having to stay home from school and they

0:43:27.000,0:43:31.350
might not even be able to help you with

0:43:29.160,0:43:33.720
any of the bullies you might be facing

0:43:31.350,0:43:35.940
so it’s always good to have a support

0:43:33.720,0:43:37.620
system and try and talk about your

0:43:35.940,0:43:41.930
problems I know it’s difficult

0:43:37.620,0:43:44.940
I had trouble in the beginning and I

0:43:41.930,0:43:48.330
definitely know I’ve it’s gotten easier

0:43:44.940,0:43:51.720
for me so just know it’s better to have

0:43:48.330,0:43:53.370
a support system and if you do need to

0:43:51.720,0:43:55.470
talk about problems it’s always good to

0:43:53.370,0:43:59.280
it’s always good to try and talk about

0:43:55.470,0:44:00.990
them ok I think that sums it up pretty

0:43:59.280,0:44:02.850
well there I think talking and

0:44:00.990,0:44:06.000
communications a big thing never be

0:44:02.850,0:44:09.150
afraid to talk about the issues before

0:44:06.000,0:44:13.050
we go I do want to invite you to

0:44:09.150,0:44:17.790
subscribe to us on Apple podcast you can

0:44:13.050,0:44:20.250
get our audio podcast on Apple podcasts

0:44:17.790,0:44:23.940
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0:44:20.250,0:44:26.790
podcast networks as insights into teens

0:44:23.940,0:44:29.460
or you can get our video version of our

0:44:26.790,0:44:31.740
podcast if you do a search for insights

0:44:29.460,0:44:35.460
into things that will get you all of our

0:44:31.740,0:44:37.440
podcasts and video other than night you

0:44:35.460,0:44:39.720
can email us at comments at insights

0:44:37.440,0:44:41.970
into things calm you can get us on

0:44:39.720,0:44:44.490
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0:44:41.970,0:44:45.869
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0:44:44.490,0:44:49.160
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0:44:45.869,0:44:51.720
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0:44:49.160,0:44:53.940
you can get links to all of this plus

0:44:51.720,0:44:59.940
show notes and transcripts on our

0:44:53.940,0:45:03.030
website at WWE in two things calm and we

0:44:59.940,0:45:06.210
do have an article recently posted up on

0:45:03.030,0:45:08.700
medium on this subject if you visit

0:45:06.210,0:45:12.090
medium.com slash insights into things

0:45:08.700,0:45:14.880
and you and don’t forget to check out

0:45:12.090,0:45:17.250
our other two podcast insights in the

0:45:14.880,0:45:20.490
entertainment hosted by you and mommy

0:45:17.250,0:45:23.340
and insight into tomorrow our monthly

0:45:20.490,0:45:28.170
podcast hosted by you and my brother Sam

0:45:23.340,0:45:32.210
yes and I think that is it for today yep

0:45:28.170,0:46:02.369
another one in the books everyone bye

0:45:32.210,0:46:02.369
[Music]